Author Topic: Different gear boxes  (Read 21233 times)

Offline GR40

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Re: Different gear boxes
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2012, 11:04:12 am »
I was actually running a 9n clutch on my g40!

Offline Nick_S

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Re: Different gear boxes
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2012, 01:11:02 pm »
Saw this today in the scrap yard a mk3 golf with a small block engine 1.4 and what looks like a big block gear box was rather puzzled by it



??

Yeah those late mk3 golf have the block cast to have a 020 series gearbox mate to it. Spen on Club polo bought an AEE engine and started work on it, then found out an 085 box wouldn't fit!

If you were doing a complete custom engine overhaul/build like a turbo conversion, then this block might be worth looking into as a base.

Offline Nick_S

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Re: Different gear boxes
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2012, 01:57:37 pm »
For anybody looking for a cheap alternative to a broken G40 gearbox, then this is the best option imho:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/vw-polo-p-reg-1-6-gearbox-code-dcc-/130679340333?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Car+Make%3AVW&hash=item1e6d187d2d

IIRC, switch over 3rd and 5th (if your G40 box has these intact) and you will have essentially a G40 CEK gearbox  ;)

Offline djtez

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Re: Different gear boxes
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2012, 12:28:50 pm »
But a presume that this has no strength advantages over the G40 box?

Im trying to find an alternative Box that will be stronger to handle all the Torques :-/

Offline Nick_S

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Re: Different gear boxes
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2012, 01:17:47 pm »
Non of the type 085 gearboxes are stronger. The only thing which makes a G40 box slightly stronger is the crown wheel is bolted onto the diff housing. I think second gear might be more case hardened too on the G40.

I'm now treating gearboxes as wear n tear consumables. Got masses of spare parts, so can repair or knock up a new G40 box if needed  :D
« Last Edit: May 07, 2012, 01:34:33 pm by Nick_S »

Offline Justin14100

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Re: Different gear boxes
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2012, 07:18:19 am »
What about the Lupo GTi box? Why doesn't that fit?

Offline Andy

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Re: Different gear boxes
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2012, 08:57:35 am »
Different bell housing on Lupo.

Best thing that anyone can do is analyse what components fail, replace them and see if they fail again to learn from that. With cars of this age, state of tune and mileage it can be unclear whether it's a torque related failure, or simply age/mileage.

I broke a few ATVs with a highly tuned G40 motor, but never had the same failure twice! Had a diff die (pinion gears had shattered, but donor car had bounced off kerbs and snapped driveshafts), and dog teeth go on 5th (gear alignment), and finally the gear teeth go on 5th (age/oil/torque - replaced with new items and still going strong).

Having said that, if you've got a G60'd motor or a 220bhp+ turbo'd lump then I reckon you'll be seeing a fair few torque-related failures regardless. Yoof buzzed 2nd gear in his on track, but that was with sticky tyres, LSD and a passenger - I suspect that the additional grip this combination provided increased the shock torque loading on the gear teeth as the turbo spooled up.

Offline djtez

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Re: Different gear boxes
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2012, 11:10:18 am »
Although the lupo has different bell housing ive seen alot on German polo forums or this or the Polo gti box being fitted with the Sorg motorsport conversion plate.

I cant seem to make sense of whats being said but i do still have the links.

But there was more an issue fitting the lupo box, but i think that was with the 6speed.

I will be running g60'd , which is why im tryin to figure other options.
A Bought my box from Craig Wallet which was sold as Cup box (no difference to my knowledge)
fitted with a quaife diff, which i imagine will be much Stronger!!

Offline Justin14100

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Re: Different gear boxes
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2012, 11:38:47 am »
Possibly the fact the Lupo box is hydraulic? I wonder if the 6 speed ratios would be any good on the G?

Offline djtez

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Re: Different gear boxes
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2012, 11:46:05 am »
There is also a guide to change the conversion.

its all on polo trieff .de

Offline djtez

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Offline Yoof

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Re: Different gear boxes
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2012, 12:55:39 pm »
I'd be interested, but- if it requires new flywheel/clutch, custom cv joints, new plate diff, cutting chassis leg/subframe, custom shifter mech (potential for a nice CAE one) and it's heavier, then it can't be far off a good few grand and a large amount of work.

Can break/rebuild quite a few boxes for a few grand!

HoR Racing in Germany do 'uprated' gear sets for an 085 box, Sorg had one for sale a while back, silly short ratios, but was 3000euro+ and wasn't fit for 250Nm+ (which your G60 PY will have!).

Old Klaus here: http://www.klaus-bernert.de/rennsport.shtm

Offers a 6-speed sequential upgrade for an 085. He's never responded to my e-mails, and the boxes seem to fetch £7k second hand, so no idea what they are new.


Offline djtez

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Re: Different gear boxes
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2012, 01:21:26 pm »
Thanks for the post Yoof, seems you have alot of hidden knowledge lodged away deep in that brain of yours!

Alot of the german boys quote that the ATV box is no good after 150nm ...
where as you know yourself not quite the case although it depends on the driving, yes i know.

From bits ive read, you use Golf hubs, and people are cutting the shafts down to size!
flywheel and clutch i've not managed to figure yet.

But there are a few boys running g60/ audi tt box's so it cant be that hard or expensive surely.

A 6 speed seq box would be absolute AWESOME

Offline Yoof

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Re: Different gear boxes
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2012, 01:39:04 pm »
I have a big head, got to fill it with something.  ;)

150Nm- yeah that's probably right for a design case, FOS (facor of safety) I'd guess at 1.5 times declared (225Nm with ATV) which is probably about right. Fudge factor comes in when the 084 box is so similar to 085 and that was designed with 45bhp in mind!! D'oh.

Driving style, available traction, and torque delivery do have a massive impact upon life. I've found since being able to get full traction in second (requires a meaty passenger, slicks, subframe etc etc) that second gear goes! Before the wheels just span!

Driveshafts aren't too bad, there's various companies which will make them (custom) for £160/side so you could use a Golf inner joint, and Polo outer joint if you wanted to retain the Polo hubs.

However, in the spirity of upgrading things, if would be a shame not to switch to a Golf hub & use a larger CV- I don't think the Golf hub fits in a polo upright, so que changing the uprights/steering arms/top mounts.

Wonder if the spline on the gearbox can be changed easily.

The 02* series of boxes are very readily available, I've got a huge spreadsheet of them at home, all with various ratios if it's of use.

Sequential is awesome, but also requires a form of torque reduction during shifts, be it through ingition retard, or fuel cut- either way it's not happeneing on Digifant, so more expense on either a gearbox control unit (GCU) or a decent ECU which can handle shift inputs/control loop too. I've never used a sequential or set on up, but I think you'd also need a strategy for failed shifts etc too, not that simple.

Clio 172 Cup Cars used Sadev boxes, when I used to read the Cliosport.net forum a few people had them on road cars, required oil changes frequently (1k miles) and a fair amount of upkeep- which a motorsport box is designed as such gearsets are eas to change/inspect. I get the impression they're crap at low speeds and tip in/tip out throttle conditions, and generaly very clunky, being ither semi-helical or straight cut teeth.



Offline djtez

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Re: Different gear boxes
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2012, 03:24:37 pm »
You should start your own blog, or scrap book for us all here Pete !

Have you found Hor upgraded gears of the same ratio as ATV ?

You'd think there would be some choices out there seen as there is quite alot of demand for Stronger box's/cv/driveshafts .. even though the G40 are quite few and far between in the UK the rest of the world have many! and more than half a would guess are running over the 150nm mark be it from a g40/g60 or turbo.

There is alot of technicalities with the sequential set-up, Digifant is far too historical for all this as you've mentioned, i wonder how Peter Naumann in his Bergrennen champ had his set-up.
Not from knowledge but guessing from sound of his car he uses straight cut with sequential as the changes are phenomenal!

I hope this Topic keeps going and we all get some good info out this