MK1 golf g40's

[spookey]

Hi guys recently ive been looking at new shells to re home my g40 engine and ive came to a conclusion that a mk1 golf shell would be a rather nice chassis to use. So im after a bit of knowledge and know how really.

The main questions i have at the moment are can i use a bigger block golf ie 1500cc and up or do i need to stick to the smaller engined varieties?
and does any one know of any build threads i could have a nosey at to get a bit more info on the conversion?
I know of grungeisdeads build thread on here (Im probably the person who has viewed it most over the last few weeks )
and its been really helpful but i would like to use the charger where he cheated and used a turbo 

any one got any info?
Many thanks Luke   

[SamG40]

This is quite a good thread, http://www.vwgolfmk1.org.uk/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=33263&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0. This is something I've toyed with for a few years now. Its something I've revisited of late with the issues with my current chassis but I think I'll go for a mk2 polo in the end.

There are swings and roundabouts for both. Mk1 golf's do have wishbones and are a similar weight to a mk3 so not any heavier. Stuff like coilovers are cheaper and track tyres  and wheels etc are much cheaper and more common. However trying to find a reasonably low mileage rust free golf shell is no easy task. As I said I think I'm going to go for a polo, it will cost me more in mods and stupid uncommon sizes for track rubber etc but I just like mk2 polos and its not as obvious a choice as a Golf. However trying to find a decent mk2 is no easy task these days.

If I were going to go for a golf I think I'd bastardise a polo/golf mount rather than chopping the golf chassis about. Also there are some really cheap mk1's that pop up for sale every now and again but I'd be wary of them as they will have issues. If you can find a golf that has had a polo gt engine put in it which I've seen a few of for sale in the last year you are half way there.

[confusionhunter]

the thing is though, if you wanted a fast mk1 golf surely the engine of choice is a 1.8t 20v and not a G40. Yes it would be different and a bit lighter, but unfortunately the 1.8t is a superior engine in many ways, plus pretty damn cheap these days.

[spookey]

link of that mk1 looks good Sam cheers for that. Thats a good way of doing the engine mount not to sure if the rubber part of the mount has been affected to much by the heat? I was looking at cutting the chassis about and welding in the polo mount section in. I wouldnt have thought it would be much harder to do then what the guy has done on that mount but i havnt seen any build threads of people doing this so dont really know for sure. 

I have seen a few resonable golfs for breaking and going as a rolling shells in the past so im hoping to pic one up that only needs a bit of welding. Some of them are going cheaper then you can pic up a well used (read nackerd) mk3 on club polo!!

The polo gt golf engined ones are a good shout i didnt think about that. I would assume every one would just use the golf mount and bolt it to the engine like grungeisdead did?

I understand where you are coming from confusionhunter a 1.8t mk1 would deffonatly be a beast. But the thing is i have a g40 engine sat in my garague with no shell for it to go into so in my eyes i know the engine so i might as well use it.
Better the devil you know and all that.         

Cheers Luke

[dekerf1996]

If your G40 engine is a good one, surely you could sell that and get a good chunk of money towards a proper engined mk1 Golf.

NOt sure on the state of tune ayour G40 engine has, but sticking a 1.8 in a golf (whatever type) is fairly easy an cheap and will have more power in pretty much standard form that a fairly well tuned G40 engine has.

So many choices of engine for the mk1 too.

[PeteG40]

see i'm on the fence with this...

because

G40 - light, revvy, cheap to tune( to a certain extent) and you know the engine.  Cheap tax, fuel economy is pretty good. 150bhp is easily achieveable.

If you use any normal golf engine 1.8/2l 8v or 1.8/2l 16v you get approx 150bhp tops out of the engine without spending some good money - dear tax and guzzles fuel compared to a g40 - not to mention heavy.

1.8ts are becoming cheaper, but unless you wire it in yourself then it'll be about 1500-2000 to get an engine in and working properly.

[spookey]

I see your points of view but as you say deker i would need to sell my engine first and by the looks of things there not selling quickly at the moment. And as pete has mentioned if i was going to do a 1.8t i would probably use one of those qpeng wiring looms just so i dont get bogged down in half a ton of wiring to do and there not cheap.

The only other engine i was thinking about would be a g60 but again i would need to sell the g40 engine to free up some money to buy a g60 and that could launch me into a hole world of problems if i buy a duffer and taking more time waiting for the g40 to sell.

The state of tune on my engine is pretty reasonable r1 charger, toothed belt pulleys, chip, and 4 branch and other bits and bobs so it may be a 150bhp engine at a guess? I wouldn't have thought it would make a amazingly slow mk1 golf! granted not as quick as a 1.8t but no where near making it a boring car to drive. And if i do get bored of it there's still more mods to do on it to push the power up a bit. 
 

[dekerf1996]

If your only looking for 150 bhp (would have thought your G40 would be slightly more than that) then a basic well set up 1.8 16v is close to that, and stick a 2.0 bottom end on that and its around the 170 mark. All done very cheaply too, those things sing right round the rev range and will take a hammering all day long (well mine did when i had it in my mk2 11 years ago)

Its a bolt in convestion on a 1.5 and above shell, tried and tested route. Plus spares and repairs are much cheaper. Large choice of boxes too

You will be surprised how fuel effiecent those engines can be too.

Then there is also the G60 as you mentioned, people have been getting 240+ bhp for years and costs are coming down of these, fairly plug and play

You also have the 1.8T which can be had for next to nothing now days, running golfs are down to the £1k mark now, sell off what you don't need.... Standard tune with a chip and they are 180bhp and you can go up to 280bhp for under £1k later if you feel the need. Don't buy a Qpeng loom, speak to rubberjohnny of ED38, he makes looms for these and I think they are around the £3-500 mark. Yes may cost a little more money than the G40 route, but very easy to get more power out of them when you get bored, which you can't do out of the G40 (what for 200 bhp will cost you £1-2k, whereas on the 1.8t that will get you a reliable 270-280 bhp and change!!!)

THen if you want more of a challenge a VR6 and Turbo will fit in, though you might want 4 wheel drive then!!

Don't get me wrong, I think the G40 is a great engine, and run one as a daily and building a mk2 coupe G40 but for the Golf there are better engines.

Good well know and strong G40 engines are always sell, its just the poor advertised unknown engines and cars which are taking time to sell. If your prepaired to break it up it will sell quicker too. I might be interested in a few parts ;-)

[PeteG40]

hmm a a kr 1.8l 16v is 139bhp and a 2l16v ABF is 150bhp.  and you have to thrap it to get to it..  170bhp would need some added work such as a ported head and cams - these aint cheap!

if you want a cheap 150bhp - then go 16v. I get 30mpg ish tickling my ABF and driving below 3krpm all the time to work (10 miles) mix of long straight roads with 5 min in town centre.

however, I find the 150bhp of  a g40 engine ultimately much more drivable than an ABF - low down torque is much better..  But i like forced induction compared to NA.  I'd sooner a g40'd mk1 than an abf'd one

as for a g60 with 240bhp - you'd need £1000 for a conversion (at cheapish prices) £500 for charger work, £300 remap, head work, manifold etc - to get 200-220.  240 is a 2l conversion with forged pistons/BVH etc.  so for a 240bhp g60 engine read about £3500-4000.

1.8t  is cheapish IF you buy a whole car and ditch the rest or wire it yourself. And good if you want want lots of power later on.

All depends on your budget, long term wants/needs and how you drive IMO.

[spookey]

Thanks for that guys. I'm not aiming for 150 bhp really ideally i would like 170-180 figures out of the g40 engine.
Just because that's the power figure the guy i bought it off gave me. I think that would be a nice amount of power in a golf chassis. 

Now i know you can get this amount of power out of many engines that fit into a mk1 golf as you say a ABF engine will easily do this. And maybe this is the way to go but im a bit like Pete and prefer a torque of the g40 im not a fan of a engine you need to ring its neck to get it to go.

As for the 1.8t it might be able to fit but would 280bhp through a little golf really be a good idea? I feel it would just eat its own tyres and under steer into every hedge on the way to work. let alone making jobs like changing the cam belt a right pain in the arse to do. But if i can do a whole conversion for the price i can get for the g40 bits i have i might well look into it.

My brother is putting a 220 bhp g60 in his mk1 caddy so maybe i will wait a bit to see what that turns out like before i pass to much judgement on the power stakes.

Cheers

Many thanks Luke   

[dekerf1996]

getting 170-180 bhp out of the G40 engine is a lot to ask. Robin did a build thread when he was chasing 180bhp in his, he either had a BVH or a 1341 conversion (i forget which now) and a lot of other mods, plus meth inj too and struggled to reach the 180bhp. He ended switching to a turbo set up.....

A 1.8 16v with the ur mod, 4 branch (which you have to do) and a decent set up gets you around 150 bhp and goes very well, best of all its very cheap and easy. Chuck a 2.0 engine in there whist keeping the kr cams should see you too 170bhp with the 4 branch

As you said, the 1.8 G60 engine is fairly simple to work on and drop into a mk1 therefore, and will run anything from 160 to a fairly easy 200bhp with a chip and pulley right round to 250bhp for a top speced one, and should keep some of the appeal of the G40 as its just its bigger brother.

However pound for pound the 1.8t is probably the cheapest, if you want over 200bhp. Anything upto 280-300bhp in a fwd car is the limit really before it becomes too much, but its really down to personal taste.

THe great thing about the mk1 is its able to put its power down so much better than the polo and the parts can handle it so much better. Also finding second hand parts, or even new is easier and usually cheaper.

Also when looking into this myself, i found that a less stressed engine that is working well within its capabilities will generally be cheaper to run and more cost effective to run. So a mildly tune 1.8t would last longer and generally be more reliable than the same horsepower G60, which would also last longer than the same horsepower G40.

It really depends on how you like to drive the car and what you intend to use it for....

Me personally after looking at at have decided to keep with the polo's for now, but when i change the daily next year or year after, there are certain cars out there that pull their weight so much better than a polo or golf!!!

[ereeiz]

I'd stick to a G40 engine myself. I'd also stick it in a mk2 again, never been in a mk1 other than my 1.6 GTI but I thought the G40 went verrrrry well in the mk2 golf shell.

Before the "Why don't you just G60 it if it's a mk2 Golf" questions start- they're shit IMO. Wheezy, fat bloated, underpowered set-up that has an exploding charger. It made the car light too. I used a GTI with a few bits from a 1.3 model (I bought two scrappers). Wiring was easy, pretty much plug 'n' play if you don't mind messy wiring (I chopped/ adopted the Polo loom to fit nicely on mine).

[grungeisdead]

the wiring is a big piece of piss

basically main points to note

in-tank lift pump (any mk3 one fits)

in-line fuel pump,accumulator and filter with bracket off mk3, weld studs on rear of golf chassis leg and fit

for a 5 speed box you need to either make a half polo 5 speed/half golf 4 speed mount, or a fully custom jobbie

to fit the charger you will need to weld the polo g40 engine mount with the golf mount

wiring requires nothing more than a switched live (i use the black wire off the ign barrel to energise the relay, and the power feed comes from the battery) to the ecu loom, and splicing the coil power/rev counter feed into the plug that feeds the G40 engine loom (which is all standalone)

then just standard conversion stuff like making IC fit, fitting exhaust etc.

All the 4 speed golf linkage bolts straight on and with a bit of adjusting (of the splined linkage) will see you being able to get all 5 gears

170 brake is pretty easy, harder to get more

g60 injectors
ported head
ported gt inlet
51mm tb
65mm toothed pulley
full psd exhaust system
meth injection
shrick cam
vernier pulley
std intercooler
r1 jabba charger

there were a few other mods but they were drivetrain related

that was rapid, the G-lader delivers power so linear its hard to beat, the turbo is completely different and I miss the torque the G had (and the noise of the toothies)

although the turbo running 28psi was like a fucking rocket ship, needless to say this was wound down quite soon after!

[g40willa]

As a young un I was always told that  the mk1 golf was one of the best handling cares on the road, and having owned a few g40s I decided early on that I wanted ag40 mk1, so whilst working for a big mobile company I was afforded the luxury of being able to sneak out of work every day and builds my dream g40 golf. 2 years later and alot of sneaking and I'd built it, mostly paired for by the thieving big red phone company. The engine was bored and tubed by pitstop developments I got the engine for half the build cost and I looooove the g noise and un rivalled torque. This combination of engine and chassis is perfect, I've had g40 owners say it's beautiful to drive and mk1 golf owners say that it's perfectly balanced and weighted, one big time basingstoke vw mechanic said it was the smoothest, nicest mk1 golf he'd ever driven, and he'd built many 20vt mk1s. The engine produces about 180bhp and is plenty fast enough for me. To anyone thinking of under taking this project if say use a small block chassis and the g40 engine if poss, although as someone says here, the 20vt is loads cheaper now and much more tuneable, but if you can find agood one, DO IY! The torque makes it worth it and the smooth power delivery from the glader is so worth it. I'll never sell mine, and the tax is 66 for 6 months.

[g40willa]

The spelling was terrible, sorry for that. Payed not paired, predictive text.... Sorry..