Author Topic: pps sub frames  (Read 11502 times)

Offline DKnight

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Re: pps sub frames
« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2010, 12:59:00 am »
yeah as said, he has done the right thing, but if it went out like that then its worrying, quality control with things like this, can cost lives.

I know that sounds a bit extreme, but it only takes it to happen once!

Offline Yoof

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Re: pps sub frames
« Reply #31 on: February 06, 2010, 10:42:07 am »
Exactly Dan- now Polo PP is a registered business we're also having to stump the cost of public liability insurance. If that frame had been run on a car, snapped, and the death or injury traced back to it, then the liability falls to the manafacturer- possibly being liable for hundreds of thousands.

Offline Fred

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Re: pps sub frames
« Reply #32 on: February 06, 2010, 08:48:37 pm »
Of the weld in the 1st pic there are 2 reasons for the Fail.

If you weld 2 different thicknesses of steel together with a Mig
then the way is to point the wire ever so slightly to the thicker metal.

To me, I`d say the welder was set too low and was too much to one
side.

This creates what we call a Cold Lap Weld by where the heat is absorbed
into one side but laps or settles on the other without penetration.

It is worth bearing in mind that cheap black shitty steel has a shaley finish
and some of the power/ampage of the welder is taken up burning through this
slag like finish.

Sanding the steel clean is as important as the setting in my eye`s for a good weld.

I used to work at a Local Lift firm and their (Ugly Fat Toad) welder had 1 setting (Low)
for everything and hence he did welds like that. Scary when you consider those Lift`s
went up and down a shaft all day.

I became Fred the grass as i notified the boss and in turn became an enemy of all his dosser cronies and frequently found lift car floor screws strategically placed under my van wheel after 2 seperate punctures and thinking it was odd that the same type of screw was in both and the same tyre (Passenger front).

This is what happens when you care and upset the easy life of those who don`t give a
Poohdoo and get away with whatever they can.

Thankfully i moved on to better things and having been out of work since xmas i have been almost a week in a new setup welding Titanium Footpegs for Moto crossers and the likes.

http://www.raptortitanium.com/

Fred.

 

Offline Varley

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Re: pps sub frames
« Reply #33 on: February 06, 2010, 11:15:38 pm »
Good welding knowledge Fred!

All the best with your new venture - pegs look sweet!

Offline DKnight

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Re: pps sub frames
« Reply #34 on: February 07, 2010, 12:43:54 am »
fred is the bo daddy at welding :D

Offline Tommo

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Re: pps sub frames
« Reply #35 on: February 07, 2010, 10:01:34 am »



Looking at that its not so much the welding I would be worried about, it would be the poor design of the tie bar mount. Would it hurt so much to put a gusset in there? Thats a massive stress concentration where that tube welds to the main frame bit. Probably still more than up to the job as I know its not megga forces involved, but good practice would be to gusset that, or change the design.

Offline scotsjohn

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Re: pps sub frames
« Reply #36 on: February 07, 2010, 12:02:16 pm »
Good to have folk like Fred on the forum and even better that he's earning again. As for his experience with his last employer, that's much more prevalent than you might think. You're well out of it Fred.

Offline Yoof

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Re: pps sub frames
« Reply #37 on: February 07, 2010, 07:31:54 pm »



Looking at that its not so much the welding I would be worried about, it would be the poor design of the tie bar mount. Would it hurt so much to put a gusset in there? Thats a massive stress concentration where that tube welds to the main frame bit. Probably still more than up to the job as I know its not megga forces involved, but good practice would be to gusset that, or change the design.

100% agree- if you're gonna copy, copy correctly  ;)

Ours:


Offline Fred

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Re: pps sub frames
« Reply #38 on: February 07, 2010, 08:51:50 pm »
If your gonna copy. Learn to weld.
Quite frankly! that subframe is a DEATHTRAP and if it was handed to me then i`d grind out most of those welds and redoo them.

I did wonder if it was a copy someone as made having access to a pps frame before it was fitted.

I hope the Guy at PPS acknowledges its from his stable and doesn`t contact you saying whats this your trying to pull.

Either way! Until its sorted it`s Scrap and the comment that i wouldn`t be too worried about the welds is Wrong.

There are 2 types of People in every trade, Those that care and will De-Burr and sand sharp edges and produce good Quality work and those that Don`t give a F**k and produce POOHDOO.

Unfortunatley! Poohdoo outways Quality these days in lots of area`s.

Thats why the country`s Fooooked Coz it`s run by Dollopers. lol.

Either way that Subframe needs to go back because if its just cut back on the welds and re-welded it will warp out of true so needs to get cleaned off and put back on the Jig prior to welding.

I was 1st Tested and Coded way back when Doncaster Prison was being built.
Several of us we`re tested and at least half failed but they had the chance to do it again and most passed.

Thankfully i passed 1st time but i wer crappin it coz i wer a self Taught welder and didn`t take any courses or the likes to become a welder.

Near to me is The Barnoldswick Rolls Royce works and One of the Guys i`m making the footpegs with told me a tale and said this is as true as it gets- Several welders wer on a Night shift and had to do a test piece each to be trusted on an important job.
They wer all brickin it with worry and they got the Guy who they considered to be the God of welders there to do all their test pieces.
What happened was that all the cheaters test pieces passed and the guy who did them had his own fail.
Karma perhaps but it does say that even a Coded welder can pass one day and not the next.
Failures in already Coded welders is Quite common but isn`t too much to worry about as it will never fall to bits because usually the fail is down to a tiny amount of oxidisation deep in the weld.

Thanks for the comments Anyhow folk and
Best of luck with the subframe fella.

Fred.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2010, 09:30:38 pm by Fred »

Offline dub-disaster

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Re: pps sub frames
« Reply #39 on: February 07, 2010, 09:06:48 pm »
I have been assured I will be receiving a completly new frame. I will post up some pictures of the quality when I recieve it's Stuarts customer care has been great so far and he did hold his hands up and appoligise for the welds although he though someone had done somthing to the gearbox mount since it left him. Hopefully it will all work out for the best thanks for the advise and support

Offline Fred

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Re: pps sub frames
« Reply #40 on: February 07, 2010, 09:47:15 pm »
Cheddercheese! If you ever want advice on welding then feel free to ask.

Fred.

Offline cheddarcheese

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Re: pps sub frames
« Reply #41 on: February 07, 2010, 10:20:24 pm »
thank you fred. I really could do with some advice soon.


Offline Tommo

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Re: pps sub frames
« Reply #42 on: February 07, 2010, 10:56:30 pm »

100% agree- if you're gonna copy, copy correctly  ;)

Ours:



Got to hand it to you Yoof, the design of that looks way better to me. And no harder to manufacture (probably easyer tbf)

Offline GeirJB

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Re: pps sub frames
« Reply #43 on: February 09, 2010, 08:28:07 pm »
Hmm!! I had plans to order a subframe from PPS, but this just made not so sure about that...!!
Hadn't compared those 2 subframes before this thread....!!  :-\

Offline dub-disaster

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Re: pps sub frames
« Reply #44 on: May 30, 2010, 12:04:57 am »
recieved the replacement frame a couple of months ago actualy now but have been lazy and not put phots up but here they are stuart from pps is a realy nice bloke and he made the new frame the colour i wanted and he even included rubber boots for the rod ends but after seeing that cracked weld i didnt fancy trusting a pps frame so i bought a different one but here are the photos of the new frame so you can all make your minds up what you think.