Power limit on charger

[RyanC]

Yh was thinking bigger injector tbo if running over 200 what do u mean by the outlet?
Can u just use standard one?

It can kill the box any more than a turbo surly apart from boosting faster so more stress at lower revs?

[Jezza-7]

The charger gives instant boost where as the turbo is a better delivery of boost.

I tried to see if an outlet from a g40 would fit, it does but you need to modify it slightly and the angle isnt the best, you will need one like this ideally:

8th item down the page G60 outlet 165 degree

http://www.rp-motorsport.de/en/g-lader/g60-tuning.htm

[Phil]

where as the turbo is a better delivery of boost.

Charger definately has a better delivery than a turbo in my opinion.

Anyway, here are my thoughts, years ago on a stock car with stock cam, cat, exhaust, inlet etc, just a 65mm pulley and a chip pulley I remember pulling 150hp....

Now, no offence here Robin, even if it would have pulled the 10 more later on with just a map, something must of been up for you to pull 166 with this spec...

"1341cc
High compression ratio with metal head gasket
GT inlet
51mm throttle body
FMIC
Aquamist
250cc injectors
Full PPP system inc 4 branch "

Lack of BVH/Cam + large bore manifold? I don't know... But it is a bit harsh on that mateys for sale ad to tell him it'll only pull 140, he should get more than that, even if 180 is a bold claim.

Does anyone remember Jabbasports G40? Wasn't that 180hp? I can't remember the full spec, but it definately didn't have a large bore manifold, High comp 1341, FMIC, and Aquamist...

Personally the jabba car always said to me there wasn't much wrong with the stock intercooler and manifold/downpipe. This tallied up with the various G40's I've built and other people's I've driven. The car's I remember having more fun in had modified stock downpipes and smaller bore exhausts than 63mm. That's rated for 220-250hp?

Vaguely remember someone taking a high spec g40 to 8krpm and getting 200hp?

G40 with G60 lader making 221 years ago?

Anyway, just food for though for all you with G40 laders chasing HP, be interested to see some more RR graphs with full specs......

[Andy]

Jabba's car had a charge cooler, not just the standard IC.

Extra CR and capacity from 1341cc don't appear to do a lot for outright power, but the CR increase does help power off-boost significantly.

Most power I've seen a G40-ladered car make was Barney's black G40 (for sale on here...) which hit 195bhp or so at Aldon, but it was at quite high rpm (7300rpm ish if my memory serves!) so not exactly oil seal friendly if you used it. Those PSD '1341' camshafts were filthy durations, so really opened up the top-end.

My own car ended up the same spec as Barney's, and was bloody quick on the road - but using that peak power all the time meant that lader oil seals didn't stay put, being as they were regularly taken far beyond their rated rpm limits. And herein lies the problem with chasing big power with a G-lader.

Alternative is to look at the G60 chargers, but those that ran 65mm pulleys never kept chargers or gearboxes together long (thinking Stu Baxter's 220bhp Mr Plow car, Renegade Rob's Anger Car). Duncan always stuck to a 68mm pulley on his '60 so that it all held together. Ironically our 1/4 mile times were consistently within tens of milliseconds of each other - him with a 68mm pulley and G60, and me with a K03 on 15psi of boost about 7 years ago when we were both down the Pod a lot. Both running normal tyres and open diffs back then too.

Always worth remembering that dyno figures are largely meaningless for comparison, unless done on the same dyno following the same methods. We've all seen comedy results over the years, Michelle's 65mm pulley'd G40 doing 175bhp at Stealth (15" rims and dyno operator not re-setting dyno co-efficient inbetween runs) or Duck's Eaton making 230bhp when similar spec'd cars were struggling to do more than 190bhp elsewhere are just two that spring to mind.

This is why quarter mile terminal speeds are often a better comparison between cars - ETs are too traction dependant so not much use, but terminals are usually the same regardless of rampant wheelspin or not.

[z3i]

Im confused, robins dyno did seem rather puny for the mods 166bhp when rs tuning are saying a 65mm pulley free flow filter and chip will see 150. But then the dyno doesnt lie

im worried about dynoing mine, as i think it will be far less than expected,
i like the idea of a g60, think retaining the glader is cool and boost would be much lower. People have seen 20psi out of a g60 on a g60 so may be more on a g40 1.3? Less flow more pressure?

[z3i]

Ignore my post andy answered it

[z3i]

Andy you say the psd 1341 camshafts have filthy durations, thats the came i have, think it would cause a rough idle? Do you recommend another cam instead of it?
Sorry to go off topic

[Andy]

They work, but in my experience they shift the power up the rpm more than the more 'normal' G40 cams offered by Schrick and Piper for example.

It's worth checking which one you have, as there were numerous different types of cam that PSD tried. Mine had a lot of overlap as well as being fairly fruity in duration, but used to idle nicely once remapped and properly setup.

I'm a fan of the Schrick G40 cams, they won't make as much outright power as a PSD one I don't think - by the virtue of not shifting the torque up the rev range - but they are a decent all rounder IMO.

[Phil]

Cam like the rest of the mods, much depends on the rest of the spec. Shricks g40 would be fine for most, and that was 252/276 or around that without looking it up. I've had newman do a few over the years.

If 150hp for chip, 65mm pulley and derestricted airbox is an agreed benchmark.

What else was did Jabbas car have to get the 180? Chargecooler, bvh, ported charger, and a map couldn't of been the only things that made 30hp?

[z3i]

They work, but in my experience they shift the power up the rpm more than the more 'normal' G40 cams offered by Schrick and Piper for example.

It's worth checking which one you have, as there were numerous different types of cam that PSD tried. Mine had a lot of overlap as well as being fairly fruity in duration, but used to idle nicely once remapped and properly setup.

I'm a fan of the Schrick G40 cams, they won't make as much outright power as a PSD one I don't think - by the virtue of not shifting the torque up the rev range - but they are a decent all rounder IMO.

thanks mate, maybe ill stick to it, like you say, will behave much better once its remapped and set up properly. Im getting a vernier for mine too, so might help the situation.
ive got to change the cam seals soon so the cam is coming off, there arnt any duration markings on it, is there any way to measure or an equation to work out my durations? Cheers

[RyanC]

Been looking into g60s and as andy said they seem to eat the box and chargers don't really last long! I think ill stay with the g40 tbo and just mess around with that and see what I can get out of it. I will be using it on the road a lot so something around 180 is plenty for the road IMO. but I will be putting it round the track a lot too. I will see how it goes I think. There are always things that u can do to get that extra bit if power, if you say someone has had 195 out of a g40 at top end then it can be done with the right cam and remap.
I think I can get 180 maybe a tad more might as well set a goal!

[Nick_S]

When rich on anglsey owned the jabba car, seem to remember it got to 190 bhp on the 1272. Mine was 176 bhp at aldon on my 1473 cc when I ran it on a generic psd map, stock intercooler, stock rear exhaust. Got it to 189 bhp at (8 psi @ 6000 rpm) chipwizards with custom map and ppp exhaust system.  Just need 20 psi boost now for an animal lol

[djtez]

just to note, i never did build my G60 conversion.

80% of the parts if not more are all lying there in the garage along with car etc and charger including all the brackets and fully rebuilt engine.

just .... never built it :-|


someone willing to travel up and finish it for me ?


although i still need to sort out some arrangement for a base map, and also buy a MAP sensor.. id say im pretty much ready to build and go.

[PeteG40]

Most power I've seen a G40-ladered car make was Barney's black G40 (for sale on here...) which hit 195bhp or so at Aldon, but it was at quite high rpm (7300rpm ish if my memory serves!) so not exactly oil seal friendly if you used it. Those PSD '1341' camshafts were filthy durations, so really opened up the top-end.

i think barneys made that power at stealth... as when we did a g40 rr day at aldon, barney's car made in the 170s IIRC

[Andy]

I've got an Aldon graph of Barney's hitting 185bhp too somewhere. Alan's 1341cc made similar numbers at Aldon too. Didn't think Barney came to that Stealth day that Karlos organised back in the day?