Author Topic: Power limit on charger  (Read 25231 times)

Offline RyanC

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Power limit on charger
« on: July 20, 2013, 10:41:15 pm »
Basically I'm staying with a charger instead of a turbo I know putting a turbo on is a Easyer a quicker way of getting near 200 but what do you think the limit is for the g40?

My spec will be

Full blend charger with jabba induction kit
FMIC
PSD toothed pulleys
51mm TB
GT inlet
BVH
1341cc bottom end (wossner pistons and pec rods)
Lighten and balanced fly
Aftermarket cam
G60 injectors
Shorter and coned valve guides
Windage tray
PPP full exhast system
Probs missed a few little bit

They are the things I'm doing that I think increase power I have stuff like oil cooler and a LSD and other bits a bobs but they not really to gain power.

I was looking at aquamist but I don't think I'm gonna go down the route

I think with that spec I could get 185-190 or maybe a bit more depending on the map?

What do u think? Could I get more out of a g40 charger, I could go with a g60 charger but would like to see what the limit is on a g40 first.

One day I will most Likely go turbo ha


Offline Jezza-7

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Re: Power limit on charger
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2013, 11:26:36 pm »
I wouldn't say putting a turbo on is easier, a G60 charger is probably an easier option but you will certainly be close to 200 with either.

I have everything you have mentioned except bigger valves, mapped by ppp and im (at a guess) between 170-180 max running 12psi. Happy with the power as any more would be too much for the road.

You might see 185 with bigger valves but i think you would struggle, considering turbo guys make 190+ and they run like 22psi.

If you run a small pulley like, 62/60mm you will probably see over 185 but then you will be servicing your charger more. If you got a G45 charger i think you would be closer to 190. But then you might as well get a G75 charger and be over 200  ;D

At the last rolling road day one turbo motor made 195, and another was 205 iirc. 10bhp between them, as far as im aware, the only difference was the 205 motor had a bvh and aquamist obviously every engine is different though. Would of been good to know what power it would make with the aquamist switched off then you could see the difference in power gain with bigger valves.

Plus if your thinking of aquamist, you might as well run nitrous and gain some good power as aquamist wont really gain much power. They are about the same price to buy but aquamist needs to be mapped and nitrous is better, more power and more fun! And if you map your car without aquamist, then want to run it, you need to remap it again. Of if you have it mapped with aquamist then run out  of methanol you cant drive on boost or if you decide you dont want aqaumist anymore you need it mapped again.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2013, 11:34:47 pm by Jezza-7 »

Offline RyanC

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Re: Power limit on charger
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2013, 11:32:40 pm »
Nice one thanks for that :) yh I think I will end up turboing it one day but for now I want to see what the g40 can do :) I'm future proof anyway with the bottom end that I will be running ;)

Offline Jezza-7

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Re: Power limit on charger
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2013, 11:37:01 pm »
Just to save some money, i wouldnt bother buying pec rods if there is nothing wrong with your current ones.

Offline z3i

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Re: Power limit on charger
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2013, 11:50:59 pm »
Just to save some money, i wouldnt bother buying pec rods if there is nothing wrong with your current ones.

thats what yoof said.... Didnt end well :P

Offline RyanC

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Re: Power limit on charger
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2013, 11:59:31 pm »
To late got the pistons and rod cheap tho work so I just got them both plus as Taylor said look what happened to yoofs! And one day I might go down the garrett route! So might as well get them now so I don't have to take it apart again!

Offline Robin

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Re: Power limit on charger
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2013, 08:54:09 am »
Before I ran the turbo set up I was running the following:

Full blend charger
Toothies
1341cc
High compression ratio with metal head gasket
GT inlet
51mm throttle body
FMIC
Aquamist
250cc injectors
Full PPP system inc 4 branch

It produced 166bhp and would gain about an extra 10bhp with a custom map - never got that done in the end as I went to turbo.

http://www.polog40.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=945.60

Rolling road graph on page 5.




Offline Jezza-7

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Re: Power limit on charger
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2013, 09:48:37 am »
Just to save some money, i wouldnt bother buying pec rods if there is nothing wrong with your current ones.

thats what yoof said.... Didnt end well :P

he is running a lot of power though, plus i said the same and my engine is fine. They take a lot to damage them. Trust me i have been through 2 engines. My melted piston was proper melted and it had slightly melted the con rod. The engine where the valve went through the piston didnt even touch the con rod. There pretty good con rods for standard parts.

If your looking to go turbo Ryan then it makes sense.

Offline RyanC

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Re: Power limit on charger
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2013, 09:49:59 am »
So with the Bvh and a good remap I should get around 180 then maybe a bit more if I find some extra things to put on ;)

Offline RyanC

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Re: Power limit on charger
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2013, 09:52:41 am »
Yh this is what I mean because it gonna be used on track most of the time then I will end up going turbo so I don't want to have to rebuild it again plus I got the cheap with the pistons so it was a no brainer really

Offline Yoof

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Re: Power limit on charger
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2013, 10:14:23 am »
G60 charger with a larger pulley - nice and different and will still see circa 200bhp on a 68mm pulley

Offline RyanC

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Re: Power limit on charger
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2013, 10:55:58 am »
Please don't tempt me! Ha

Offline z3i

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Re: Power limit on charger
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2013, 11:35:31 am »
Hmmm, mine is pretty much the same spec as yours ryan apart from BVH. though i dont want to go turbo. And you say a g60 would see 200bhp yoof? A 68mm pulley would put less strain on the charger too compared too 65mm on my g40

hmm interesting, its not too hard to fit a g60 either
thanks for that :) will probably go g60 in the future, sorry to hijack
reckon you should go g60 ryan

Offline RyanC

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Re: Power limit on charger
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2013, 11:49:51 am »
Yh I'm looking into it now just run standard pulley so u don't service it every 2 miles lol should still get 200 all u need is the charger,mounting plate for tensioner, pulley, remap
can't be a lot else.
I dunno if it will fit without cutting the slam panel tho? And would u need a bigger map sensor?

Offline Jezza-7

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Re: Power limit on charger
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2013, 12:16:31 pm »
Yeah you need a bigger map sensor and you also need an outlet for the the charger. I had a g60 charger and outlet then scrapped the idea as the charger will just kill the gearbox.

I had a 120 degree one i think, thats what you really need but there expensive.

By the time you have brought a charger (serviced or unserviced, ported or un-ported), air inlet adapter, charger bracket, pulleys, outlet, some custom pipework, map sensor, possibly 310cc injectors, it wont be far off going turbo. My charger i got was quite cheap but it needed porting and servicing. Thats easily £400 on them 2 bits so its best to get a charger thats been recently serviced and ported. Most of the time i see then go on ebay for £500+.

Just get a G60/G65 or G75 charger  8)

this is what djtez has roughly priced up on going g60 but not everything is on the list

£380  G60 supercharger stage 4 (rebuilt by g-werks)
£435  Jabbasport rebuild (spoke to Brian but no idea about the high rpms)
£71   G60 bracket to fit G40 engine (tensioner)
£29   Toothed Belt to fit
£46   Toothed pulley to fit G60 (70mm?)
£66   G60 race inlet 90mm
£49   G60 Rs outlet
Engine Parts
£550  Wossner Piston 77mm
£150  Engine Rebore of 2mm
£120  crank regrind (if required)
Fueling
£95   Bosch 315cc, 14.5ohm (reconditioned)
£60   Sytec FSE In-line Fuel pump (otp017)
Managment
£33   250kpa 1.5 bar limit MAP sensor
£???  When i find someone to give me a map!
Extras.!
£70   Universal Front mount
£100  Intercooler piping
£??? Labour on Agra Engineering rebuilt bottom end.(£45/hr)



There is a polo G60 on a german forum that is claiming to have 241bhp running 65mm pulley and 1.6bar of boost.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2013, 12:19:59 pm by Jezza-7 »