Author Topic: how to make 190 hp?  (Read 7274 times)

Offline exlader

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how to make 190 hp?
« on: August 21, 2011, 11:06:29 am »
hi fellos !!
i own a g40 since 1991 and it was bougth brand new! about 10 years ago i changed the g-lader and went turbocharging, but the turbo used was from a opel frontera 2.8 tdi, the car runned well but i wanted a turbo from a petrol engine and last year i changed it from a saab 2.0 lpt , garrett gt 17, and the car it´s a lot quicker compared with the other turbo.
from the set up used with the older turbo i used ported and polish head, de wadged butterfly, abt cam( this cam was used in the g40 cup in portugal as long as abt chip), abt chip and big frontal intercooler, the pressure is about 1 bar at about 4.000rpm( same as with g- lader with 65mm pulley).
i´m wondering what are the modifications needed to get about 190 hp? i think the actual power is around 160/165??!!!
thank´s and please help me!!

Offline AlexG40

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Re: how to make 190 hp?
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2011, 06:01:59 pm »
Turn the boost up!  ;D

Offline Justin14100

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Re: how to make 190 hp?
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2011, 12:00:04 am »
get the ecu remapped to match the fuelling correctly

Offline hayesey

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Re: how to make 190 hp?
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2011, 09:26:09 am »
turn boost up to about 1.5 bar and get it properly remapped.  If it's using a chip designed for an engine with a g-lader then the fuelling wont be right for a turbo.  You need to find somewhere with a rolling road who can remap Digifant.  I'd not turn the boost up so high until you can get this done or you risk doing some serious damage if the fuelling isn't right.

Offline grungeisdead

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Re: how to make 190 hp?
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2011, 01:55:28 pm »
id also be considering larger injectors and enlarging the throttle butterfly to 51mm.

using the GT inlet manifold and port matching the inlet and exhaust manifolds to the head

lastly a Big valve head.

looking at Yoof's turbo spec would be a good place to start, but as said most of it is going to be in the map, as no generic chip will be ideal, a good starting place, but a custom map will allow you to make full use of all the engine modifications.

invest in a wideband lambda if you do not have one already.

im also not sure at what point the MAP sensor should be upgraded, Hayesey or Yoof should be able to advise!

Offline hayesey

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Re: how to make 190 hp?
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2011, 02:26:57 pm »
map sensor should ideally be upgraded once boost is above 1 bar as that's when the standard sensor has no more measurement left, and so when remapping you cannot add any more fuel at this point so either have to turn boost down to stop damage to the engine or put enough fuel in for 1.5 bar at the 1 bar map point which means that between 1 bar and 1.5 bar it'll be overfuelling and making less power than it should.  

as for injectors, you'll definitely need some bigger ones yes, not optional really once you get to about 165-170 bhp you are maxing out the standard ones at high rpm.  This was witnessed years ago on Paul Borthwick's g40 saloon.  For 190bhp you'll get away with 250cc ones I'd have thought.  

I reckon 190 will be possible with a standard head and bottom end, just about.  Mine has standard bottom end with big valve, ported head and made 194bhp.  Robin's car made exactly the same power on the same rollers on the same day with standard head but 1341cc bottom end.  Both with approx 1.5 bar.  Although you might struggle beyond 180bhp with both head and bottom end standard, if you push the mapping to the limits and dont map in any safe guards (i.e. push ignition advance to the limit, keep AFR a touch leaner than might be safe at top end, andy mapped mine to run a touch rich at the top end so as to keep the bottom end cooler) then you might get 190 out of it.  The head seemed to be worth 10bhp at the top end, the 1341cc bottom end worth 10bhp everywhere else until you hit the max flow limit of the standard head higher up the RPM range.  
« Last Edit: August 22, 2011, 02:29:43 pm by hayesey »

Offline hayesey

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Re: how to make 190 hp?
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2011, 02:38:58 pm »
but the problem is, you might end up with a 190bhp engine that lasts a few months and then shits itself when you put a bad batch of fuel with a lower MON because it's been sat in the tanks of the petrol station for a few months in a quiet area where people dont often buy super unleaded.  Or works ok when it's cooler outside but detonates when the air temp gets hotter.  

Might be cheaper in the long run to invest in a big valve head or 1341cc bottom end and make a safe 190bhp.  Head is cheaper but 1341cc will mean a faster car because even though the headline figure is the same, it's making 10bhp more for 80% of the usable rev range, the bottom end will be stronger too.

Yoof's old spec when he was using a K03 turbo was basically as per mine and robins but with both big valve head and 1341cc bottom end.  He made something like 202bhp with this so essentially another 10bhp (wasnt rolling roaded on the same rollers or the same day so only a rough estimate comparison)
« Last Edit: August 22, 2011, 02:42:42 pm by hayesey »

Offline breadman

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Re: how to make 190 hp?
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2011, 09:09:58 pm »
You'll also need a turbo specific camshaft rather than the one designed for use with the Glader.

Offline dub-disaster

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Re: how to make 190 hp?
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2011, 06:09:52 am »
You'll also need a turbo specific camshaft rather than the one designed for use with the Glader.
Or a gt cam

Offline Raw

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Re: how to make 190 hp?
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2011, 01:57:59 pm »
GT is better than G40 cam, but to make 190 I imagine you need a puka "turbo" cam.

Offline dub-disaster

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Re: how to make 190 hp?
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2011, 02:20:21 pm »
GT is better than G40 cam, but to make 190 I imagine you need a puka "turbo" cam.
Tommo made over 200bhp on a gt cam.

Offline hayesey

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Re: how to make 190 hp?
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2011, 02:42:04 pm »
with a 1.6 litre engine!

Offline grungeisdead

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Re: how to make 190 hp?
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2011, 03:48:48 pm »
it was a 1.4 ABD paul

Offline hayesey

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Re: how to make 190 hp?
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2011, 04:12:29 pm »
well still, not 1272.  cam choice is more dependant on turbo characteristics really anyway. k03 doesnt work too well with a gt cam, bigger turbos get on with it better.

Offline exlader

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Re: how to make 190 hp?
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2011, 12:14:42 pm »
thank´s mattes! you´re really cool n very usefull! thank´s a lot!!