Gaskets, block deck and clyinder corrosion

[dub-disaster]

Firstly I've read in the haynes if the mating surface on The top of the block shouldn't be warped by more than .05 mm Mines pretty plat but there's a few place where I cab get the .05 mm feeler all the way under the straight edge ( 4 ft engineers straight edge from work) in all but one place I can't fit the .1mm feeler under and in the one place I can I can't fit the .15 under is this likely to be ok and any distortion this small be taken out by the gasket ? I can get some photos up of where it's distorted as I marked it with a pen if that helps.
    Secondly where I stored the engine for a long time I oiled it up but one one cylinder wall there is a thin ring of flash rust I'm assuming from under the cylinder or between rings where I didn't oil can I just remove this with some White scotchbrite and some wd40 or should I be looking to replace all rings n have the block re-honed? Trying to avoid this if possible asthis build is realy stretching my bank account now !! Will post some pics tonight when i'm home.
        Finaly could any one be so kind as to list the gaskets n seals I'll need to build it back up as I would like to get them all in one otherwise it will take ages for vw to get them I've got the short motor assembled and the head is part assembled just needs cam, seals gaskets and o rings already got tappets, also got head gasket and bolts and a sump gasket any thing else I will need ?
flash rust on cylinder wall

you can see grit that has got stuck in the oil here and as I have turned the engine over a few times by hand it may have been spread about

all the spots where I could get the 0.05 feeler guage under the straight edge marked here in pen


 

[giorgio]

Pictures will never show the full extent of the damage (or lack of).



The pictures look like the bores have been honed since factory. If you re-hone again to clean up the rust etc then you may be out of tolerance.  If the rust has eaten into the block then it will never seal as you will now have a groove. Although I could be mistaken and scaring you without just cause as pictures of such things are hard to judge. Clean what you can without going crazy and measure the clearance in the cylinders. Numbers etc are in the Haynes book of lies. Do that before you buy any gaskets etc.

If all is hunky-dory then get the block skimmed, it wont cost more than £30.

[woody02]

Phone nick at 'Rs engine supplies' in Kent for any gaskets/bearings that you need, much more helpful than my local VW dealer. He got me Elring gaskets and kobelschmidt bearings , everything i needed for a complete rebuild, all decent stuff. 01233661458

[dub-disaster]

Thanks for the tip woody I'll give them a go once if checked out the block.
    The rust looks like surface flash rust to me I'll clean it up n have a measure, but as it's a 1341 where will i find the correct wear limit and maximuim bore diameter for the 77mm pistons I'm using?or are you just talking about piston to cylinder if so are these the same for the accralites as I know forged pistons contract and expand more than cast items. Don't suppose any ones got info sheet that came with there accralites have they ??
   At this point how far would you suggest going shall I just measure the top part of that cylinder, or shall I measure all 4? To do all four I'll have to have crank n pistons out aswell so what else should I check over whilst there out bearing clearances with plasti guage? Other than that whilst it's all in bits what items will defiantly need to be replaced and wich could I replace for piece of mind seeing as it's an uknown engine ?
    Bores not done from factory aswell as it's a 1341cc accralite bottom end. I hope this doesn't get expensive I bought it from philj thought I was getting a bargin, wish I'd just gone to jabba now !!!
   Is the only way to check weather it's ok once I've put the head on a compression test ?? Does this check the seal on each single cylinder between the bore and the rings?
  Sorry for asking what may appear stupid questions but I've never done this before n whilst it's all apart I want it sorted properley so once it's in it's a good reliable engine that doesn't have to come out again !! Thanks for all the patience and help guys
dunno if you can see better in these
 

   

[giorgio]

The rust looks like surface flash rust to me I'll clean it up n have a measure, but as it's a 1341 where will i find the correct wear limit and maximuim bore diameter for the 77mm pistons I'm using?
The new pistons come with paperwork so get hold of phil.

I know forged pistons contract and expand more than cast items.
They have less mass than stock so would generally expand less, although feel free to explain if I am wrong.

At this point how far would you suggest going?
I would go all the way. Skimp now and you will regret it.

Shall I just measure the top part of that cylinder, or shall I measure all 4? To do all four I'll have to have crank n pistons out aswell so what else should I check over whilst there out bearing clearances with plasti guage?
The cylinder will (hopefully) be the same size all the way down. The pistons will be slightly oval (when cold) with the narrow bit being along the gudgeon pin. And they will have a slightly larger diameter at the bottom than the top. Don't panic when you measure this.


Other than that whilst it's all in bits what items will defiantly need to be replaced and wich could I replace for piece of mind seeing as it's an uknown engine ?
Everything. Dont bother putting it together until you have a replaced EVERYTHING. Build a 1341 right and its bombproof (imo). As far as I know Yoof et al have had relatively trouble free lives with theirs.

Bores not done from factory aswell as it's a 1341cc accralite bottom end. I hope this doesn't get expensive I bought it from philj thought I was getting a bargin, wish I'd just gone to jabba now !!!

The bores will have been rehoned when the were overbored. Its a G40, it is expensive. If you build it on the cheap its going to cost twice as much. Plenty of build threads out there to prove this.

Is the only way to check weather it's ok once I've put the head on a compression test ?? Does this check the seal on each single cylinder between the bore and the rings?
It will check the 'seal' in a cylinder. So that is the rings and head gasket. This is why I say skim the head/block. Even a tiny gap will cause issues when you add 6,000 rpm, loads of heat and 13 psi.

Sorry for asking what may appear stupid questions but I've never done this before n whilst it's all apart I want it sorted properley so once it's in it's a good reliable engine that doesn't have to come out again !! Thanks for all the patience and help guys

Every day is a school day - Check the technical section - http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/


   

[dub-disaster]

Unfortunatly me n phil ain't on talking terms we fell out over a head that he sold me with the engine so I shan't be contacting him any time soon if no one else on here's got the spec sheet that came with the pistons I'll ring accralite n see if they will email me one.
    Forged pistons are actualy more dense than stock cast items wich does make them slightly heavier but this increased density is why they are alot stronger and alot better at conducting heat  away i read in a book that using forged pistons can lose you as much as 30 degrees centigrade.
      I do agree and I want things done correctly for peace of mind but both money and time are now becoming a restraint I wanted the motor in before the nights started to draw in but now looking like it ain't going to happen !! I may end up paying somone to strip it check it n rebuild it  so it's done asap not what I realy wanted that's why I bought it already done but then I didn't know what I know now, retrospect such a great thing !
    If I am to do this myself your suggesting strip it measure it all up and replace all bearings rings thrust washers oil pump n chain even though there all ment to be new ?! The beaings look pretty new still got that White layer on top of them maybe I'll just strip it measure it all n replace any strech bolts or anything that's not within tolerance.
       My god this engine build is going to end up costing me more like 2.5k I only budgeted 1k for it realy!
       That site is very good for info I read alot ofthe stuff on there about flywheels as I was considering one of Petes lightned jobies, also read about cylinder heads I'll have a gander at the rest now though. Thanks agin for the help mate just outa intrest do you run a 1341 and did you build it ??