Author Topic: in 2 minds eaton or r1 jabbasport g ladder  (Read 21652 times)

Offline Tommo

  • Members
  • *****
  • Posts: 292
Re: in 2 minds eaton or r1 jabbasport g ladder
« Reply #75 on: February 08, 2010, 04:29:57 pm »
gash? scrapyard?

you build it how you like, to work how you like, in a box of your choice. it's not really a uni student project more of an electronics enthusiast's project.

megasquirt + wideband lambda + map sensor = pretty much map's itself too you know.

why pay for a name, when the kit does it so much cheaper and is more configurable....

Yeah, I need to learn more about electronics, 'build it how you like' scares the crap out of me, I want to be told what to do lol. Its just because I dont fully understand how it all works. Im a mechanical person at heart, but knowing a little about this electrical stuff would be a big bonus.

But there are plenty of people who have made their own EFI, not from a kit like megasquirt, but by building it by soldering together microchips and stuff! At the end of the day its only a simple processor with 6 inputs, and the guys in instruments at work laugh when you talk about a cars ECU as if its apollo 13. I tried to get the guys there to turn my old sega megadrive into an ECU so I could change maps by changing the cartridges haha! Thats my idea of a cool car!

I wasnt aware that megasquirt could target values as well. I know they dont map their selves but given enough time it does most of the hard bits for you. If I was to build my own EFI I would deffinitly map it myself, surely thats what its all about? I would be more inclined to use an existing cars EFI system and remap it to work a polo, I might do that once my mate has saved up enough to buy Nistune lol.

Offline Andy

  • Traders
  • *****
  • Posts: 1503
Re: in 2 minds eaton or r1 jabbasport g ladder
« Reply #76 on: February 08, 2010, 10:02:19 pm »
To be fair, a modern ECU is pretty darn complex. Last one I worked on the calibration of at work had 25,000 calibratable variables - some were just single setpoints, others could be 16x16x16 3D maps... Takes teams of people a couple of years to go from clean-sheet design to something that's fully productionised. 6,000 pages of software documentation to read too. Digifant is dead simple by comparison - it's like comparing a gramaphone to an iPod!

Megasquirt is one way of learning, but you end up learning a lot of pointless shite in the process that's unique to the speshness in the way it's programmed/designed when you really just want to be learning about EFI - not how to bodge MS to get it to work. It's come a long way since we used it on Yoof's car, but it is like an overgrown uni project. You also run the risk of listening to (albeit skilled) people with good knowledge of electronic hardware or software design - but who may not really have a clue about automotive electronics.

A fine example is the use of a bloody parallel port connector, and industrial temp range components in the early MS versions. Like I said, it's come a long way since then - and I believe that MicroSquirt was supposed to be a fully automotive spec sealed unit with a proper automotive sealed connector. Dunno if that's made it to production yet though.

Even with a commercial product like Emerald there are improvements to be made, aside from needing a properly sealed case, I've found several software bugs that've done my head in and disappointed me in equal measure. But at least with that you've got some comeback to winge and get a new software version!

Offline giorgio

  • Members
  • *****
  • Posts: 391
Re: in 2 minds eaton or r1 jabbasport g ladder
« Reply #77 on: February 08, 2010, 10:24:53 pm »
Dave walker with weatherproof your case if you ask. Not sure what it entails but I got a few ordered up as so. Not had the balls to open it up but I assume its probably just some strategically place silicone.

Offline Tommo

  • Members
  • *****
  • Posts: 292
Re: in 2 minds eaton or r1 jabbasport g ladder
« Reply #78 on: February 08, 2010, 10:27:14 pm »
I know modern car ecu's are a bit more of a complex bit of kit but they are more than just an ECU now it seems, run the whole car.

Offline giorgio

  • Members
  • *****
  • Posts: 391
Re: in 2 minds eaton or r1 jabbasport g ladder
« Reply #79 on: February 08, 2010, 10:30:49 pm »
Understatement of the century ^

There are loads of processors controlling all sorts of crazy stuff from climate control to central locking. They are easy when you know how (ask Andy).

People actually get paid to reduce the amount of wires that go in cars as there are so many

Offline Andy

  • Traders
  • *****
  • Posts: 1503
Re: in 2 minds eaton or r1 jabbasport g ladder
« Reply #80 on: February 08, 2010, 10:36:34 pm »
Dave walker with weatherproof your case if you ask. Not sure what it entails but I got a few ordered up as so. Not had the balls to open it up but I assume its probably just some strategically place silicone.
Well, the connector's sealed and the PCB's conformally-coated so it's most of the way there anyway... Just needed a better case and properly sealed RS232 connectors for the extra I/O and comms cable. The sealed RS232 connectors are a few quid from RS, and I've got some RTV silicone to seal the case up with - would rather do it myself, but a few years on I've still not got round to it.

Offline Andy

  • Traders
  • *****
  • Posts: 1503
Re: in 2 minds eaton or r1 jabbasport g ladder
« Reply #81 on: February 08, 2010, 10:48:09 pm »
I know modern car ecu's are a bit more of a complex bit of kit but they are more than just an ECU now it seems, run the whole car.
Well, to be fair the EMS ECU tends to just control the engine, but your typical car these days will also have some/all of the following ECUs talking to one another: ABS, body control module (which may contain immobiliser, alarm, central locking, wiper control, heated window control etc.), instrument pack, HVAC (aircon/heating), airbag module, transmission controller (if auto), stability control/traction control system (may be part of ABS, or EMS) battery management system, possibly some 'infotainment' unit controlling satnav/radio etc. Plus there'll be a few other application specific systems to interface with one another too.

Gets bloody complicated whilst developing a vehicle electrical architecture - your auto transmission controller will get the hump if the ABS isn't telling it brake and wheel-speed information, the engine needs to listen to the auto transmission to reduce torque when it's trying to shift gear, etc. etc. Doesn't take much on a prototype vehicle to make the whole system go tits up, but lots of effort goes into obtaining production solutions that are robust enough to be safe and fault tolerant. Anything safety critical has to have a lot of redundancy built into the design.

Offline Tommo

  • Members
  • *****
  • Posts: 292
Re: in 2 minds eaton or r1 jabbasport g ladder
« Reply #82 on: February 08, 2010, 11:08:44 pm »
Impressive stuff, I do often wonder if these cars will stand the test of time as the home mechanic becomes ever more detatched from what goes on in his car.

I think mercs have been using a system for some time where all major components are linked with a sort of data cable that sends commands with digital signals rather than just switching power between wires to operate stuff. I dare say most cars may be like this now, I have no idea.

Offline Yoof

  • Traders
  • *****
  • Posts: 2355
  • I know naathing..
    • Polo Performance Parts
Re: in 2 minds eaton or r1 jabbasport g ladder
« Reply #83 on: February 09, 2010, 07:01:28 am »
Think you mean CAN Tommo  :)

W12 stuff at work has an ecu per fuel pump...  ???

Offline giorgio

  • Members
  • *****
  • Posts: 391
Re: in 2 minds eaton or r1 jabbasport g ladder
« Reply #84 on: February 09, 2010, 10:51:06 am »
the Bloodhound is using a 750bhp V12 for a fuel pump  :-\

Try putting that into the wiring loom  ;D

Offline rich h

  • Members
  • *****
  • Posts: 17
Re: in 2 minds eaton or r1 jabbasport g ladder
« Reply #85 on: March 31, 2010, 03:56:23 pm »
You will struggle to break 180 bhp with a 40 lader and standard cylinder capacity. I remember Gordan Ray a while back now ploughing good money into his car, only to get 179bhp. Saying that though, Rich Hughes had Jabba's old green G40 and i'm fairly sure that got to near 190bhp and i don't think it had Aquamist, just a chargecooler instead.

You will have to use laughing gas to get to 200 bhp :D

yeah it did 194 i think when jabba owned it, adrian ford had it for a few years after that, not sure if it ever got those figures with adrian, he tried to tweak it to get more.
what happend to Barney?
also why are there rollers so bad then with high figures ? dont they get them checked out


All RR printout were in the history..
170 was the most Jabba got out of it, Ade had 176 then I got 191 which for the record I reckoned was bollocks. Reckon it was about 185.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2010, 03:58:19 pm by rich h »