Author Topic: What spec suspension and brakes to use?  (Read 4061 times)

Offline DaBigGinger

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What spec suspension and brakes to use?
« on: July 22, 2015, 01:21:34 pm »
I've taken my G40 (Mk2 conversion) off the road for a bit of an overhaul. I want to improve anything I can within reason. Cost isn't really an issue (but sticking with sensible). If it's more than I have to spend at the moment, I'll just keep it off the road until I've saved up. It's purely intended for the occasional spirited drive, no track days or day-to-day travelling etc.

I'm looking at the brakes and suspension at the moment. Here's what I have:

Chassis/Suspension:
-PPP stage 2 subframe (to be fitted)
-Front and rear Ged brace bar.
-G40 rear axle.
-Nylon ARB bushes.
-All other front bushes are poly.
-Koni springs and damping adjustable shocks.
-Stictch welded nearside chassis leg.

Brakes:
-G40 239mm front brakes with PSD recommended discs and pads (I can't remember the discs, but the pads were Raicam).
-Lockheed remote servo.
-Braided brake hoses.

Is there anything reasonable I should consider to upgrade the suspension? The thing I don't like about the current Koni springs and dampers is that the shocks have to be removed from the car to adjust the damping which is a huge pain in the backside. Something that can be adjusted in-situ would be far better. I think I'm right in saying coilovers would only give me ride height adjustment as an extra feature. I can't think I'd make any use of this unless anyone thinks I'm missing something amazing about them I haven't considered.

I understand that on the braking upgrade side of things, 256mm front brakes from the old Audi 80's are useable, but probably virtually impossible to source all of the parts now. Are Wilwood 4-pots a bit overkill for the road, or a worthwhile investment? Would I be using the ones intended for the Mk1 Golf GTI? I know some people use the Passat master cylinder. Is this worth going for? Does anyone have a part number for this? Is there anything else I should consider?

TLDR: What should I consider to make my brakes and suspension/chassis better?

Offline Etches

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Re: What spec suspension and brakes to use?
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2015, 02:47:18 pm »
Sam G40 has the pukka audi brakes you are after dude, give him a PM .

I would suggest getting a stage 3 frame as it's night and day with that before suspension.

Suspension wise, I'd actually advise not to go coilovers. It's better to get springs and shocks because you can select the branding of either and spring rates too. Seem to remember Pete saying Koni's were the 1 with HnR springs

Offline DaBigGinger

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Re: What spec suspension and brakes to use?
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2015, 08:00:08 pm »
Thanks, I'll pop Sam a message.

I spoke with Pete about whether to go for a stage 2 or 3 frame and ended up deciding to go for the stage 2. As much as I would like to go for the stage 3 and have the wishbone setup, I think the loss of the ARB would be too much of a compromise.

That being said, if anyone ever comes up with a wishbone conversion that retains the ARB (stage 4?), that would just be awesome!

Interesting point regarding the springs and shocks. I'll take that under consideration :)


Offline DaBigGinger

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Re: What spec suspension and brakes to use?
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2015, 09:40:06 pm »
Is that a TCA with a rose jointed inside mounting point? I don't quite get the translation...
« Last Edit: July 22, 2015, 09:42:52 pm by dabigginger »

Offline Agent47

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Re: What spec suspension and brakes to use?
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2015, 10:01:11 pm »
Yeah it is, slightly off centre for a bit more camber I think. And a nylon outer bush like the rears they sell.

Offline DaBigGinger

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Re: What spec suspension and brakes to use?
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2015, 10:18:12 pm »
I like that. Does anybody have any experience of these, especially with PPP stage 2 subframes?

Also, I don't suppose you or anyone else knows if its possible to replace the rose joints with off the shelf items when the  originals wear out?

Offline Agent47

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Re: What spec suspension and brakes to use?
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2015, 11:08:00 pm »
I have experience

My setup
maxrpm lower arms
nylon arb mounts
h+r shocks and spring (60/40)
rear beam with nylon bushes
cambered rear stub axles

I can't really compare them individually as I put it all on a new shell together. It's super stiff but the grip is amazing. I'll slide out of my seat before I run out of grip. It is a bit crashy but I think that's more h+r's than anything else, going on a few reviews.

Offline DaBigGinger

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Re: What spec suspension and brakes to use?
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2015, 11:29:05 pm »
That's great, thanks! I'm very interested in trying these. Do you know how many miles yours have done so far? Do you know if it's possible to replace the inner bearing when it wears, or does the whole thing need replacing?

Thanks again for this :)

Offline Etches

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Re: What spec suspension and brakes to use?
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2015, 12:21:01 am »
Andys done a fair amount of thinking with regards to suspension tuning if you are after a compromise. Should pipe up shortly id imagine. Bilstein shocks are supposed to be decent too

Offline Agent47

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Re: What spec suspension and brakes to use?
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2015, 07:45:26 am »
They've done 5-10k, can't remember exactly as I didn't change the clocks over. But they've done 1200 miles around Europe and numerous trips down a track to my mum's stables and they seem good. Im not sure if they can be swapped, you could always ask maxrpm, they're always helpful.
I'd agree with Etches, everything i've read suggests that Bilsteins are right up there. Had I known this I would have spent the extra 50/60 quid.

Offline hayesey

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Re: What spec suspension and brakes to use?
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2015, 09:58:58 am »
Re. subframes, I would recommend sticking with the stage 2 for a road car in order to retain the anti-roll-bar and much simpler wheel alignment.  Losing the roll bar on a stage 3 means you need to run much stiffer springs and these aren't great for road driving, great on track though!

With the brakes, I'd try and find the kit to fit 256mm audi calipers.  Is there not also an easier to find option using some Vauxhall parts?  Wilwoods are great and they'll work fine on the road as long as you use sensible compound pads.  Those coupled with a bigger master cylinder give more modern feeling brakes with a lot more confidence in them!  Yes you'd want the mk1 Golf GTI kit, you need to do a bit of messing about to get the brackets to fit the polo strut and to get the brake pipes to marry up (e.g. wilwoods are american and use imperial fittings!).  I think for a road car they are a bit overkill but certainly wouldn't cause any issues or uncomfortableness.  It's about pad choice though, you'd want the milder pads as the higher ones in the range (RallyDesign grade them from A to F where F is a full-on race pad not for use on road).  The higher up ones need to be heated up to be properly effective and squeak a lot.

But really it sounds like you've already got a pretty well sorted car for road use.  I'd not bother with coilovers and shocks that are adjustable in-situ are going to be mega-expensive if you can even find any.  Can I ask why you need to keep adjusting them?  Wouldn't you just set them as you want and then leave them alone?  They need to be set to match the spring rates really.

Oh also, with the master cylinder, I'd leave it standard with standard sized calipers.  If you fit wilwoods or the bigger audi ones then consider fitting a 20mm or 22mm but otherwise you'll just make the brakes require even more leg effort to work.


Offline hayesey

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Re: What spec suspension and brakes to use?
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2015, 10:02:14 am »
perhaps consider fitting a Quaiffe ATB diff if you want to spend some money on something, a decent diff will improve handling to no end.  I've noticed a couple of 2nd hand ones up for sale recently.

I'd avoid a plate-LSD though for road use.

Offline Etches

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Re: What spec suspension and brakes to use?
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2015, 12:43:03 pm »
I've got a Quaife ready for ya ;)

Offline DaBigGinger

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Re: What spec suspension and brakes to use?
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2015, 01:17:30 pm »
Guys, thanks for all of the answers and info. This is a great help so far.

Agent47, thanks for all of the help regarding the TCA's. I'm going to take a serious look at those.

Etches & Hayesey, the diff would be tempting. However, I've got to source an ATV box first (running an 8P). Once I have the box (which will need a bit of extra saving), I'll start looking for diffs. Thanks for the offer, though!

Hayesey, thanks for the info regarding the brakes. The reason I'd like the suspension adjustable in situ is I know I'm not going to get the damping right first time and it will probably take a few drives to get it perfect. I've currently got the front shocks on 2 1/2 turns out of 5 and the rears on 2 turns out of 5. As it is, it is too hard. It skips across the road on poor roads and definitely needs to be softer. I'm sure once I soften it up, I'll likely want to try a bit harder or softer yet until I'm 100% happy with it.

I know the carriers are very important to the 256mm setup. Assuming I just got those, which calipers fit? I think I'm correct in saying that the list of suitable calipers is bigger than the list of carriers. Or am I talking nonsense?