Author Topic: Building a 1500cc block using ABD?  (Read 10260 times)

Offline Tommo

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Re: Building a 1500cc block using ABD?
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2009, 03:57:01 pm »
I realise the compression ratio is higher, the G40 crank still has to deal with a larger amount of energy transfer in a shorter space of time  ::)

Hence, why make a diesel crank stronger?

Yeah, its a fair point. I wonder if perhaps the actual power transfered through the stroke is not as crucial to crankshaft life as the force caused by the cylinder pressures. I suppose the power transfered through the stroke is of a much more gradual nature than the sudden impact of compressing an inlet charge to extremely high pressure until it explodes.

Ive searched the internet a little but all I can find is this...
Quote
"Because a diesel engine compresses air inside the cylinders with greater force, the engine block, pistons, connecting rods, crankshaft, and other components must be stronger than those of a gasoline engine with the same power output. As a result, diesel engines tend to be heavier and more expensive to manufacture."

Offline Yoof

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Re: Building a 1500cc block using ABD?
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2009, 04:58:13 pm »
Yes, like for like (same net power output) diesel components have to be stronger. In this case the 1W original design was less than half the power of the PY motor- hence my concern.

As you say the main caps are a reasonable size for the power output, but for those aiming for 250bhp on a 1W bottom end, I'd be wary about it.

Good to know you've got a wideband- shame you've got a fixed ignition system, can you not get one from an early turbo charged saab? Least you'd be able to make the most of whatever advance curve you ended up with.

Be interesting to see the end result!

Offline Tommo

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Re: Building a 1500cc block using ABD?
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2009, 05:15:57 pm »
Hmm, I have not looked into SAAB ignition, Im sure I could graft the R5GTT kit on with minimal fuss.

But as im sure you are aware there is little to gain for power, just a little more drivability and of course economy. All most systems do is retard to 10 degrees as soon as you come on boost anyway, so its only off boost where mine will be effected, mostly on the motorway when you are off boost and you would ideally be running over 25 degrees of advance. But its not like its a daily driver so it will just have to wait till I get around to it.

One thing I would like to get off an early turbo saab is the boost controller they have. It has a knock sensor (a proper one not like you get on most FI cars) and when it detects det it retards boost by 0.1bar, but its a closed loop system so it is constantly trying more boost and feeling for det, You can specify how sensitive you want it to be to det and how much boost you want to run with little potentiometers on the module. And its a stand alone system, not attached to the rest of the loom.

Too much emphasis is placed on the strength of bottom ends, anything less than 30 years old will probably handle more power than anyone dares to boost it to. I used to worry about until I messed a bit with the metro turbo engine. There are people running over 200bhp on the stock crank and rods, which are a 50 year old design, the crank is not counterweighted, and it only has 3 main bearings instead of 5. Sure its probably not going to make it to 15000 miles without a rebuild, but who the hell cares? A rebuild costs little but time.

Its gearboxes that worry me!

Offline lance

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Re: Building a 1500cc block using ABD?
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2009, 06:09:15 pm »
yea mate i like your style, as yoof says early saab stuff is worth lookin into,
also what about a early lancia carb as it would be alot better than the r5 one.
just not as easy to get hold of id say.

Offline Andy

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Re: Building a 1500cc block using ABD?
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2009, 09:11:29 pm »
One thing I would like to get off an early turbo saab is the boost controller they have. It has a knock sensor (a proper one not like you get on most FI cars) and when it detects det it retards boost by 0.1bar, but its a closed loop system so it is constantly trying more boost and feeling for det, You can specify how sensitive you want it to be to det and how much boost you want to run with little potentiometers on the module. And its a stand alone system, not attached to the rest of the loom.
Saab APC is pretty clever, just uses a piezo knock sensor the same as a stock G40 though.

I've got a 9000 Aero where the APC functionality is built into the Saab Trionic ECU - it measures det through the induced ionisation voltages across the plugs, and is constantly trying to optimise ignition timing and boost levels for the fuel you're running. The ECU can take a while to adapt to new fuel - this is what happened when I went from 97RON to Tesco 99RON and stuck it on the dyno without giving it time to adapt - comedy curves:

Offline Dan

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Re: Building a 1500cc block using ABD?
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2009, 03:03:34 pm »
I wasn't trying to cause offence with what I said. All I'm tyring to say is Electronic Fuel injection injection and ignition is more accurate (as a general rule) compared to carburettors. Fair enough if you don't agree with my opinion, nobody has to agree with everything.

Fair enough if you wan't to use your method, not saying it won't work. If you can get it up and working, great. But as it's a discussion we can all offer input. 

Offline Tommo

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Re: Building a 1500cc block using ABD?
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2009, 10:49:32 pm »
Its ok. And you are of course correct, fuel injection/electronic ignition is a far superior system. But a carburettor is far from useless, after all... we all know that refinement is over rated  ;).

When I have run it for a few months on the carb, I will know if EFI is required. If I went straight to EFI then I would have spunked a load of cash and for all i would know the carb could be just as good. A benchmark to work from is all I am after, if you dont try it you will never know.

Offline juan

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Re: Building a 1500cc block using ABD?
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2009, 03:57:11 pm »
what about the 1.5 g60 on clubpolo, Has that been dynoed yet?

Offline PR23M3K

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Re: Building a 1500cc block using ABD?
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2009, 10:16:11 am »
What do I have to do to fit 1W diesel crankshaft into PY block ?
PY connecting rod will be good ?

Offline Tommo

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Re: Building a 1500cc block using ABD?
« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2009, 10:11:01 pm »
PY con rod will be too long I think, ABD rods might be an option?. You are better off with the whole block.

Offline polo classic

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Re: Building a 1500cc block using ABD?
« Reply #25 on: June 30, 2009, 01:10:08 pm »
What do I have to do to fit 1W diesel crankshaft into PY block ?
PY connecting rod will be good ?


Massage block and G40 rods for clearance, custom piston, custom map and your fine