Quaife, Subframe, ARB blocks - Handling still disapointed

[JoeH]

Hi All,

I've got quite used to driving my 100,000 mile old G on its original suspension etc, and the car would easily spin its wheels, and feel a bit floppy, Generally any handling criticism from the original reviews of the G40 I agreed with. So I thought it needed some improvement.

A few months ago I fitted a GED bar, and what a difference for £20, amazing, surely the best value mod for any mk1-3 polo ever. Ties that front end together under cornering load.

So to improve things further I've just recently fitted over £1k's of handling items:
Koni Yellow dampers and springs,
Stage 2 sub frame - matching ARB blocks, Glader outer bushes.
Quaife Diff - inc gearbox rebuild

I'd be surprised if my G is running 120bhp

TBH, i'm quite disappointed in the handling improvement.
Under hard acceleration i.e. gear 1 from standstill, it does all hold together better, and wheels do spin / screech less.
Cornering wise - it feels weird. On tight corners if feels like the inside wheel spins, but it doesn't understeer...
On faster corners the front end seems to glide, just a really weird bit of understeer, then grip, then understeer, then grip. Before hand it would just slide controllably...or I'd get scared.
This is mainly on damp roads.

Be really interested to hear other peoples opinions:
Maybe I don't appreciate how to drive with a Quaife?
Could it have been fitted with incorrect pre-load?
I don't hear any whirring / buzzing when cornering from the Quaife...

Maybe I naively assumed with the above mods, I could point the car into the corner, floor it and all would be well...

Joe

[hayesey]

have you had proper wheel alignment done since fitting all that?

Although I have to admit, I've never driven a G40 with a quaife.  On track days, fitting a stage 3 frame & gripper LSD absolutely transformed the car. 

[Alex]

I don't have a subframe yet, but I do have a Quaife diff, front brace bar and coilovers. Maybe I'm used to accommodating its flaws but I find it grips hard and is far more manageable than it was with the standard diff. In fact, that's the mod which so far has made the biggest improvement of the lot.

An instructor once told me to think about the amount of grip you have on any front wheels as being a bit like a pie chart. When you're driving forward the front wheels only have to cope with forward motion. If you're braking they only have to cope with slowing down. The harder you accelerate, brake or turn in the more you're splitting the available grip between functions and you have to wind off either a bit of brake/throttle or steering lock to make it grip again. Illustrated to me by getting me to do what you're saying, go in full lock and floor it till it understeers, then wind off the lock a little to make it grip again. Quite interesting stuff.

What I'm getting at is even in the best handling front wheel drive car (and the G40 isn't the best handling front wheel drive car, as you know) you shouldn't expect to plough into a tight corner in the rain and and floor it while the front wheels aren't straight, because it'll understeer. That's just what front wheel drive cars do. It doesn't mean you have to crawl around or not use any throttle but that it can't cope with doing everything at once. Particularly in the rain where there's less grip in the first place.

However, with a stage 2 subframe your front wheels are still able to move about a lot while braking, accelerating and cornering. Hence why the stage 3 makes such a big difference.

[Tav]

a) What tyres do you have
b) How's your alingment

I don't think you'll hear anything from a Quaife.  I don't believe Mk3 Polo's don't handle.  As standard yes poor.  Once fitted with cheap lowering kit, again poor.  My Mk3 GT was pretty rad and it didn't have ARB blocks or a frame.  Looking fwd to the G40 with a stage 2 frame, arb blocks, good tyres and decent coilovers.

[Alex]

Oh yeah I forgot about that. Quaife diffs don't whine.

[JoeH]

Great responses. 

Yes it has been tracked - after all the suspension changes. I put tracking sheet photo in my car's thread:
http://www.polog40.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=8999.msg69834#new

Car is running BBS RA 13x5.5 standard wheels with Toyo Proxes CF1 175/60/13
Apparently this is reasonable rubber. Noticeably better than hankook 14" rubber.

I think I assumed a quaife meant no wheel slip / spin.
Also I reckon i'm not comparing fairly as i've only driven in wet / damp, not in the dry. That will make a big difference.

I kinda view it as, it still drives and feels like a polo, just the bad bits are reduced (a lot). Whereas I thought it would feel like a completely different car...

[Tav]

It'll bias torque across the axle to the outside wheel in a corner.  This reduces the likely hood of wheel spin and also draws the car round the bend.

I believe it is still possible to spin one wheel with a Quaife if you are heavy handed...but you'd have to be doing something wrong with a lot of power.  Unlike a plate LSD (a Quaife isn't an LSD in the traditional sense it's an ATB diff) it can't fully lock and only ever allow two wheels to spin. 

The extreme example that was given to me is if you drive shaft snaps with a Quaife you won't be able to drive any further, just like with a normal open diff.  However, with some plate diffs they lock so much that you can drive on one shaft....not all though.

[Alex]

You'll get some wheelspin with even the most aggressive diff, especially in the rain. You'll just have to drive it really hard.

I don't tend to launch mine hard off the line but when I have it's just gripped and shot off without chirping the tyres.

Mine did feel like a different car afterwards. First thing I'd buy for a stock one, and it's usable around town with no clonking, whining or heavier steering.