Club G40 Forum
Technical => Engine and Transmission => Topic started by: z3i on March 22, 2013, 09:11:04 pm
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Hi all, my G has devolved some more issues that are slowly getting worse
recently changed my cone filter for an original air box and k&n panel filter
injectors cleaned and tested (all good)
genuine dizzy
genuine rotor arm
ngk plugs, BPR7EIX i think, the iridium ones
magnecore leads (only for their 10 year warranty)
new blue temp sensor
alternator is putting out plenty of juice
looking at all my vacuum tubing and none of it goes anywhere and it all looks randomly placed, for example theres a really long piece of tubing coming off the throttle body and only going a few inches to the fuel rail.
it doesnt look right. theres screws blocking off some and i think it may be causing running issues. does anyone have any pictures of where they are supposed to go
on cold mornings it starts fine for about 5 seconds and then the revs drop and it runs really rough with misfiring for a while and then gradually gets better as it warms. the choke works as i can smell it lol
when the car is warm its pretty good with the occasional misfire, revs fine all the way to over 7k, pulls hard loosing a bit of boost through hoses but not relevant
When i bought the car it never did this and seemed to have slowly deteriorated. it didnt just suddenly happen it appears to have got worse over the mornings (there not even that cold anymore)
ive read a shit load of posts and not really found much
my throttle sticks at idle and causes it to hunt. but its always done this and used to run fine in the cold, so i cant see it being this.
its as if something has slowly gone.
im going to get it warm tomorrow and unplug various sensors to see i they make any difference as i need to get my charger off anyway
there isnt any abnormal amount of smoke from the exhaust a bit of white smoke on over run but nothing on hard throttle
on the cambelt side of the engine there is a considerable amount of oil, and it looks like its been there for a while. ive traced it back to the rocker cover. although another source could be adding to this
i read supercharged spaniels post about oil on that side of the engine being headgasket going. but im not loosing a great deal of oil, probably normal 500ml every 2 and a half months or so. and antifreeze and oil are both clean.
i would do a compression or cylinder leakage test but i dont have the tools
i remember a while back i checked the vacuum at idle and it was around 16Hg steady at idle which was a bit low but put this down to my worn slightly open throttle
thats all the info ive got. if anyone has any ideas it would be much appreciated as im going to have a play tommorow
Taylor
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Seems like your car has had the boost return mod done at some point with the charcoal canister removed he vw the screws blocking off some of the vac pipes post a picture up of how your currently are to make sure everything is connected where it should be,
What's the battery voltage like when you first start the car from cold?? A dodgy battery can cause all sorts of misfires and running issues etc
Josh
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Seems like your car has had the boost return mod done at some point with the charcoal canister removed he vw the screws blocking off some of the vac pipes post a picture up of how your currently are to make sure everything is connected where it should be,
What's the battery voltage like when you first start the car from cold?? A dodgy battery can cause all sorts of misfires and running issues etc
Josh
Cranks over fine is randomly slow now and again. haven't had a multimeter on it when its cold only when warmed up. i didnt think to do this. mines broke, soon as i get a hold of one i will check whilst its on choke etc thanks mate
checked my timing and it was a little retarded so advanced it and now is spot on, seems a little perkier put im pretty sure its pinking when under load and on boost. sounds like something rattling round in the exhaust area. if it is it may explain why the timing was retarded to stop it. surely the ecu should pick this up from the knock sensor and stop it?
anyway thats another problem, heres some pics
(http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg547/organika2/IMG_0445_zps2c5a3edb.jpg)
(http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg547/organika2/IMG_0442_zps93053c60.jpg)
(http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg547/organika2/IMG_0441_zps662e95b8.jpg)
(http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg547/organika2/IMG_0440_zps5d530e11.jpg)
(http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg547/organika2/IMG_0439_zpsdd15de44.jpg)
(http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg547/organika2/IMG_0444_zps39149190.jpg)
as you can see the pipes comes off the throttle and goes to the fuel rail regulator. surely it should go from the regulator to the vac system? and the two coming off the vac system are blanked off :/ god dam car is becoming a pain in the ass!
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Fucking bastard ass car!!
retarded the timing to stop it pinking as it was getting really bad. and as i put the blue temp sensor back on the wire snapped off! so ive had to bodge it in the dark with solder until i can fix it monday
ive retarded the ignition sooo far back and it still pinks under heavy load
seriously... getting tired of working on the car every single weekend and my list of things to do just getting longer and longer. i think ive spent nearly £1000 in just over 2 months! i knew it would be a money pit! but really!!??! supposed to be driving it to switzerland in june
it barely makes it 7 miles to fucking work in the morning!!
rant over!
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Ok, so took the car out today its 1 degree outside. got the car to around 70 degrees, not fully warmed up (and i have retarded the ignition by about 7 degrees mechanically) and at around 2000 to 2500 rpm put my foot down in third. heard it pink and then stop pretty quick. tried again in many different gears at low rpm and high loads. it pinks for a second and then goes away. i can only assume this is the knock sensor kicking in and retarding the ignition electronically?
as the car got up to normal running 95 degrees ish. it didn't make a difference, still pinked the same. so it appears heat doesn't effect the pinking
my intercooler is the original one and is pretty covered in crud so there's probably not the best amount of air flow cooling the charged air (but it is 1 degree out at a stand still) probably minus 3 at 40mph though soon as i get a chance i will clean it all up and try again (cant see it making a difference though)
i also get a really loud more obvious pink for a split second just as i throttle off and change up a gear at around 4 to 5k. this i cant explain as there shouldnt be any load if im throttling off? or firing at all! im nearly 100 percent its pinking as its calmed down massively since retarding the ignition
i can only think its fuel related... ive just had my injectors cleaned. so possibly pump? or wrong chip for the mods?
I always thought the plugs looked a bit white, old ones and new ones. i will get some pictures up. going to run my tank down and thy some shell v power
sorry about a million questions. just want to get it running right. and would really appreciate any help :)
thank you all Taylor
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The hose running from the inlet to the brake servo has provision for two vacuum lines on it. One should run directly to the map sensor in the ECU, the other to your fuel pressure reg.
What resistance is the CO Pot? Blue temp sensor wiring deffinately won't be helping matters, is the cam timing correct?
You shouldn't get any pinking when you're motoring (off throttle) there's no combustion at this point- sure it's not something knocking?
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The hose running from the inlet to the brake servo has provision for two vacuum lines on it. One should run directly to the map sensor in the ECU, the other to your fuel pressure reg.
What resistance is the CO Pot? Blue temp sensor wiring deffinately won't be helping matters, is the cam timing correct?
You shouldn't get any pinking when you're motoring (off throttle) there's no combustion at this point- sure it's not something knocking?
Ok thanks, ive got one (not photoed) that does go through the bulk head and goes to ecu, so must be that one. and dont have one at all the goes to the pressure reg. i will sort that
the cam timing is correct, checked it when i did the timing. the blue temp sensor wiring was bad but it still got a reading as when i disconnected it the revs went up. going to sort that today as well
yeah thats what i thought, im going to get a proper mechanic in the car with me to confirm it. i thought it was a rattle at first, but its not consistent with road speed or engine speed its only consistent with load. unless something is rattling around in the charger when i put my foot down? surely it would increase with revs though? but it doesn't, it goes away the higher the rpm and less load
it sounds like little stones rattling in the exhaust,
thanks
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You still got a cat?
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No cat
sorted the wiring for blue temp sensor
cleaned the intercooler
sorted vac hoses
where does the one coming of the throttle go?
also, just thought (dont know why i didnt think of this) when i was saying about it pinking when changing gear, i meant like if im in third and change up to forth, just as a move my foot back a few cm off the throttle i get some really bad pinking. for some reason i thought the engine wouldnt be firing.. well of course it would be, just not under as much load as full throttle. then when i take my foot further of the throttle it goes
Took the mechanic out in it at work and he said its definitely pinking. went up some hills in 5th at around 2500rpm and put my foot flat, started pinking really bad!! and checked other various revs etc. if im going up the same hill in 4th at 2500rpm it does it but not as loud and in third it does it quietly then goes away when the knock sensor retards the ignition
he said to run the tank empty and try shell V power
im also going to change the thermostat for a lower temp one tomorrow, but i really dont think this is temp related. will whip the plugs out later and get some pics as i think its running hot
thanks
Taylor
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(http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg547/organika2/IMG_3233_zps54095a88.jpg)
(http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg547/organika2/IMG_3234_zps594510e0.jpg)
(http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg547/organika2/IMG_3235_zps0cae4e4b.jpg)
(http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg547/organika2/IMG_3236_zps1e1170b0.jpg)
Have browned of a bit since retarding the ignition timing. they've done 500 miles they are BPR7EIX should i get the cooler ones? bp8's
gap is set to 0.8 i think
forgot to say i havnt set the co pot as i dont have a multimeter, but will get it done soon as i get hold of one
Taylor
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Have you checked the following things:
If you have awideband whats the AFR underload ?
Fuel pressure underload ?
Condition of the wiring to the injectors ?
The fuel pump how old is it ?
Have you checked voltage at the fuel pump?
Have you now got a vac hose on the pressure regulator ?
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Have you checked the following things:
If you have awideband whats the AFR underload ? Dont have one (though i will be investing in one when i can afford it)
Fuel pressure underload ? (how do i check this)
Condition of the wiring to the injectors ? (wiring looks good, i will check resistances this weekend when i get a multimeter)
The fuel pump how old is it ? (looks pretty covered in crap dont know how old. will replace when i get some money, what are gsf ones like)
Have you checked voltage at the fuel pump? (will do)
Have you now got a vac hose on the pressure regulator ? (didnt have but i do now)
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Fuel pressure can be checked by (as you look at it) the right hand side of the fuel rail, there is a bolt, undo that and you can plug a fuel pressure gauge into it, under load would be a bit trickier. Take bonnet off so you can see it or I guess you would have to get some fuel hose and plumb it in but that could be a bit dangerous. Best way to do it is buy a fuel pressure gauge but they can be a lot.
When i last looked at pressure gauge going on the fuel rail i think that was more for setting up an adjustable fuel regulator. Could be wrong though. Im sure someone else will know.
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i did mone yesterday the piket way with pressure guage and some hose through the window far from safe but it worked and ill remove it now all you need is a schreider valve fitting (excuse the spelling!) some r6 rubber hose from ebay at around £3 per meter and a guage that reads up to 100 psi you should have 40-45 psi at idle and plus whatever boost youre running at full boost.
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Brilliant! thanks :D
fitted a new 84 degree thermostat, black temp sensor and fuel filter
made no difference, expect the car is running at like 70 degrees when driving hard?!
just under 90 in traffic and the fan kicks in?!
then like 84 through town?
makes no sense, will put my old sensor on tomorrow
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i did mone yesterday the piket way with pressure guage and some hose through the window far from safe but it worked and ill remove it now all you need is a schreider valve fitting (excuse the spelling!) some r6 rubber hose from ebay at around £3 per meter and a guage that reads up to 100 psi you should have 40-45 psi at idle and plus whatever boost youre running at full boost.
Can i just attach my foot pump to it and put in the car? :P haha
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bit of an update, been really busy as ive been breaking down lots due to dodgy wiring, relays and other reasons
put a full tank of v power in along with the new fuel filter and doesnt pink, so advanced the ignition to 5 deg before tdc and it pinks but know where near as bad, so bit of an improvement
adjusted the c02 pot today was reading 0 so adjusted it to 550 ohms bang on and the car will only hold an idle for around 5 seconds and then it cuts out, even on choke. starts fine though
so screwed it all the way in and it idles normally. what does this mean? is the lower the resistance the more fuel?
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Checked my fuel pressure and it was 2.5bar at idle with the fuel regulator vacuum pipe plugged in and then rises to 3 bar with it unplugged
haynes states it should be 1.9 plugged in and 2.5 unplugged
also when i rev the car with the pipe plugged in the fuel pressure drops to under 2 bar of pressure. even under hard revving. surly the engine would need more fuel at higher rpm?
Then if i unplug the vacuum pipe and rev the engine, the gauge stays bang on 3 bar, whether its at idle or 6k rpm
is this normal?
could the regulator be at fault? is there much to go wrong with them?
im going to check my lift pump out and clean the gauze filter, and more than likely get a new inline pump as mines seen better days
any help would be much appreciated
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with the vacuum pipe plugged in you should definantly have more fuel pressure than that with positive pressure in the manifold.
remeber that the fuel regulator works on pressure and is not rpm related. The only thing that may have an effect on this is at idle rpm somtimes the alternator puts out a lower volatage untill you revv the engine and the voltage regulator cuts in to maintain a steady voltage.
yes its normal for the fuel pressure to stay at 3bar when the vacuum source is removed.
sounds like either the fuel pump is at fault or you havnt connected the correct pipework to the regulator. I think it may be the latter because i find it hard to belive that the fuel pump can deliver 3bar no problem but when you add a vacuum source it drops below two bar when infact it should rise not fall.
If i where you i would double check the vacuum plumbing, if you can t into the vacuum supply with a boost guage and prove youve got positive pressure there when the pump is dipping below 2bar then theres either something wrong with the pump or the regulator.
Where are you measuring fuel pressure from? Have you measured the pressure when the car is pinking ?
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No, i will do that next, i need to get a longer hose
All readings were at a standstill though there should still be a positive pressure?
theres a few vacuum tubs that im unsure where they go, one from the bottom of the throttle body is blanked off, and one on the main vacuum suply is blocked off
i haven't got a boost gauge, i took it out as it looked tacky, but i definitely need one so will plug it back in soon
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Haynes specs are bollocks for the G40 in this instance.
The FPR will regulate to 3 bar relative to its reference of inlet manifold pressure. If you unplug the vacuum hose, then the reference pressure is atmospheric - so it stays at a fixed 3 bar.
If you're idling the engine (no load = no boost) the inlet manifold is in vacuum, so negative pressure - maybe around -0.5 bar. Therefore the gauge pressure you'll see is less than 3 bar. Your reading of 2.5 bar in this instance sounds about right (3 bar - 0.5 bar = 2.5). When you're revving the car in neutral you'll get more vacuum - hence the drop to 2 bar.
None of the fuel pressure tests you've done suggest any issues to me.
The way to check for sure is to load the car up with the pressure reg connected and see what the fuel pressure does. Running a bar of boost you should see a gauge fuel pressure of 4 bar (3 bar regulator + 1 bar manifold pressure).
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Haynes specs are bollocks for the G40 in this instance.
The FPR will regulate to 3 bar relative to its reference of inlet manifold pressure. If you unplug the vacuum hose, then the reference pressure is atmospheric - so it stays at a fixed 3 bar.
If you're idling the engine (no load = no boost) the inlet manifold is in vacuum, so negative pressure - maybe around -0.5 bar. Therefore the gauge pressure you'll see is less than 3 bar. Your reading of 2.5 bar in this instance sounds about right (3 bar - 0.5 bar = 2.5). When you're revving the car in neutral you'll get more vacuum - hence the drop to 2 bar.
None of the fuel pressure tests you've done suggest any issues to me.
The way to check for sure is to load the car up with the pressure reg connected and see what the fuel pressure does. Running a bar of boost you should see a gauge fuel pressure of 4 bar (3 bar regulator + 1 bar manifold pressure).
ah thanks for that, makes sense now :) dont trust the haynes book of lies anymore
ok, will get some more hose and try again under boost (with a gauge) and driving
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Replied to your last email mate - sounds like you've got a chip for G60 injectors in there, so I'd upgrade the standard injectors ASAP.
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Replied to your last email mate - sounds like you've got a chip for G60 injectors in there, so I'd upgrade the standard injectors ASAP.
Your a legend mate! thanks for your help, i said to everyone i thought it was running lean as the spark plugs were white and people at work were just like "they look normal"!
i think some idiot has had a go with my car! when i got my injectors cleaned recently two of the pintle caps were missing which i thought was really strange :S
thanks again, congratulations on the baby :)
and july time would be good. i should have everything i need for it by then
Hopefully Tom still has his cleaned set of g60 injectors :D
Taylor