Club G40 Forum
Technical => Chassis & Braking => Topic started by: z3i on October 21, 2012, 10:14:01 am
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Hello, i have used the search bar before anyone says so, but im looking for some reviews or feedback on the stage 2 subframe as all i can find is info on the stage 3
im going to be running 60mm lowering springs and shorter shocks from apex and read somwhere that it would be better suited to a stage two because of the non adjustable height
i understand i will need to order the g-lader seite arb blocks, is there anything else worth replacing if i were to carry out this modification?
how much better is the stage 2 than standard? and how much difference between stage 2 and 3 as there is £300 difference
the car is going to be used daily and driven very hard now and again
the car is a g40 running a smaller pulley, de cat, induction kit and remap to suit
is it worth the extra money for the stage 3?
many thanks
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Well don't listen to me for a review- hopefully some members can give their feedback, I've not met anyone who was dissapointed! Mind you they don't turn it into a Lotus Elise...
However, the Stage 2 retains the ARB, so means that you don't have to compensate with a stiffer spring (no problem for a track car on coilovers) which is more suited to road spec spring rates.
Stage 2 and Stage 3 are really for different purposes, stage 3 allow castor adjustment, and is heavier gauge material to compensate for the compression struts and loading directly on the frame. The struts are the main cost increase (and some more labour/fab time) the frame design is common between Stage 2 and Stage 3.
You will need ARB blocks (which PPP sell for £60 delivered) I would reccomend getting the TCA bushes in nylon too (PPP sell for £45 delivered) as the Poly ones tear- I've tried 3 different brands and they're all poor.
Driving a car with ARB Blocks, TCA Bushes and a Stage 2 Frame fitted, and then driving one without, is like night and day, I gave Sam the keys back to his G40 after one lap round the track, I didn't have any confidence in the car but I'm used to driving Polos that are solid and twitchy!
Here's me fitting a stage 2 to my daily driver: http://www.polog40.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,9016.15.html
I could bang on for pages about them, if you've got specific questions fire away, I'll do my best.
Cheers
Pete
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Well, I've got one G40 with a stage 3 (which is a track car) and one with a stage 2 on it (which is a road car for weekends and stuff). I'd say a stage three is the best handling modification you can make to a G40, perhaps aside from a limited slip diff. But they do require a bit of thought into spring rates etc... Stage 2 is easier because it retains the anti roll bar and wont confuse wheel alignment people with the caster adjustment too. But it's not quite as effective as the wheels are still allowed to move about by the anti roll bar.
Either are worth it, if you take the bumper iron off you can very easily move the chassis legs about by hand. The front end is very floppy and that's very bad for handling.
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The stage 3 totally transforms the rigidity of the front end. After having two now, I'd never drive one without it!
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Hmm, i still just as undecided after all your reviews haha.
i have no worry about the alignment part, i can do that all at work as our KDS machine measures, camber, caster, toe, toe out on turns, lock to lock etc so i could set it up on that
i wont be running coilovers ever as they are just too hard for the uk roads and probably reduce handling bouncing all over that place
has anyone driven the stage 3 on the road? for long periods of time?
stage 2 seems to be getting the vote for road by the sounds of it :)
also Yoof, do you have any in stock? or will you around January time?
also whilst im here, could you guys do me a massive favour, can you confirm these are the 16 mk2 calipers and carriers i need to fit the polo hubs
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/110964953388?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2648
before i shell out the money
picked up my first g40 on sunday :D its amazing, but the brakes are dangrous!!! seriously! what the funk! my mates 1.3 type 19 mk2 golf 50hp from factory) brakes have more stopping power! and thats no exaggeration!
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G40 brakes are ok if they're in good condition, yours are probably knackered! Condition of the rear drums makes a difference to the overall braking too. They always have long pedal travel but that's just how they are, it's not a problem.
I guess if you want comfy suspension on the road then a stage two frame would probably be a suitable compromise.
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has anyone driven the stage 3 on the road? for long periods of time?
I've done ~23,000 miles in roughly 18months on my stage 3. The frame had been used on at least two other cars before that too. So far so good. The springs I use on the front are stiff (SPAX -40mm), but without the arb not toooooo bad for road. I spend the vast majority of my time on the motorway but would prefer it softer for the country lane potholes etc.
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I think stage two it is :) thanks for your help
ive just noticed my nsf wheel has massive negative camber compared to my os, think it may have had a whack somewhen. when turning full lock at low speed the wheels scrub badly and pull the steering wheel around on its own. the only thing i can compare it to is when i drive a car into the workshop at work with suspension damage :S hmm should look at this soon lol
I may just rebuild my brakes, decent pads and discs, the ones on there are probably from gsf! and rebuild the rear drums with vag componants, ive also got a 22mm master cylinder
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22mm master cylinder makes the brakes worse. Although it shortens pedal travel you loose all feel and the pedal requires much more force to press it.
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Does it really? I got one to go on but might not put it on now.
Is it worth putting a 22mm one on?
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I think it's an essential upgrade if you put calipers with bigger piston volumes, otherwise the travel is just ridiculous. Just fitting one with standard brakes isn't a good idea.
z3i - that sounds very worrying. I'd have a very good look at everything to make sure it's not bent before buying a subframe, they need a reasonably straight chassis or they wont fit without some modifications.
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I have standard disks / callipers and its hideous! I hear with a 256mm upgrade the bite on the brakes is hugely better, there just so no feel at all on mine, dull, hard and almost dangerous if you're not used to it!
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you mean with a bigger master cylinder? yes you'll lose feel on that with standard calipers as there's no progression any more.
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Had a look underneath and i cant see anything abnormal, no bent parts. the only worrying thing is the ARB bushes are obliterated! like mullered theres hardly anything left! altough i cant see that affecting the camber
also the top mounts are shot and have extended up which could be the problem. the arms are all straight and the turrets havnt domed
ordered new genuine arb bushes, mounting caps, bolts and a second hand arb that isnt as rusty and heavily pitted!
well if thats the case i wont fit the 22mm master cylinder. if got used to the ridiculous amounts of travel now, ive decided i dont want to go for bigger brakes as i want to keep 13's :)
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Still having problems with my dodgy steering on locks
changed the arb, put new arb blocks on, nylon outer tca bushes, new suspension and top mounts. the inner bushes in the tca are fine, though one is a poly bush and one is the g40 rose joint. had the whole front end off too check for any misalignment
havnt found anything. what what cause the steering wheel to violently whip round when turning and then staying there. literally if i go on full lock i can let go of the steering wheel and just drive in a circle faster and faster and it doesnt return to straight ahead, you really have to man the steering wheel out of the lock
is it the KPI that affects this or not enough caster? something is definitely bent but i cant see anything obvious
anyone know where i can get jig brackets lol, put it on the jig system at work
thanks in advance
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Is your ARB on the right way up?
Have you had the tracking done?!
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Doesnt fit the other way does it? definitly the right way up, but will check lol
havnt had the tracking done but it drives pretty straight and the tyres dont wear unevenly under normal driving
Thanks
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You can fit them upside down, but they do catch on stuff that way. I'd get your tracking checked.
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Ok mate, will get it tracked this weekend and see what happens
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Ok, so i finally got my car in a ramp after always being a bit suspicous of the near side lower arm, turns out its bent, so replaced it and had a complete geometry check and front toe alignment
all checks out fine with no big differences either side, so no more accident damage or bent chassis
but it still has the wierd lock to lock. Could it be the rack or damper?
im buying petes subframe maybe ill notice something when i fit that
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(http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg547/organika2/DSC_0291_zps95c48a38.jpg) (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/organika2/media/DSC_0291_zps95c48a38.jpg.html)
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looks like you found it! ;D
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looks like you found it! ;D
thats not the problem, replaced the bent arm and it still has funny lock to lock
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Ok found some weird stuff today, when wiggling my steering wheel left and right it knocks, the same sound knock i get when i accelerate and brake, just one single knock, not multiple knocks
and anyway i was watching the bulk head and when i turning the steering wheel and the whole bulk head flexes!! Like really bad!! Im getting a bit worried now, i think its had a massive smash and cracked something serious!
Think the engine will have to come out and have a proper inspection
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Mine used to do this badly. There was a rust hole in the bulkhead behind the brake servo... They still flex a bit even when in tip-top condition.
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Mine used to do this badly. There was a rust hole in the bulkhead behind the brake servo... They still flex a bit even when in tip-top condition.
Thats music to my ears! i was really worried something was cracked from massive car accident or something
i think the bulk head is cracked where the pedal box/servo is like you said a few weeks ago as i keep splitting pedal boxes.
the car is off the road now so will get it welded up soon as
thanks mate :)
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Would that mean an upper strut brace between turrets would be beneficial handling wise?
Its just often they are engine bling items...
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Would that mean an upper strut brace between turrets would be beneficial handling wise?
Its just often they are engine bling items...
with the amount mine is flexing, i highly recommend it!
drove my new polo today and its an absoloute death trap!! still itl doo for a few months whilst i sort mine
whilst driving it i noticed the clutch pedal is featherlight
as is the steering
i think my rack must be fudged as its sooo heavy compared and the genisis and its anihilated! though the genisis also deos the crazy lock to lock thing
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Got my pedal box out today, no cracks i can see, a bit of rust but nothing to cause obvious problems
(http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg547/organika2/DSC_0332_zps2d33dae3.jpg) (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/organika2/media/DSC_0332_zps2d33dae3.jpg.html)
(http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg547/organika2/DSC_0334_zps1c415253.jpg) (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/organika2/media/DSC_0334_zps1c415253.jpg.html)
(http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg547/organika2/DSC_0330_zps791b2136.jpg) (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/organika2/media/DSC_0330_zps791b2136.jpg.html)
going to get the servo out tomorrow
where was the the whole exactly on yours andy? what do you recommend doing to mine? im picking up a mates welder tomorrow, should i reinforce it? and where?
thanks Taylor
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is it worth stitch welding around that seam?
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took the servo out and master cylinder this evening
didnt find much, a bit of rust but no obvious holes or cracks
when i push with my hand it flexes a little so its not very strong
will be getting the rack off tommorow evening
what do people recon to reinforce it?
(http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg547/organika2/DSC_0335_zps16afd41f.jpg) (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/organika2/media/DSC_0335_zps16afd41f.jpg.html)
many thanks
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Should i start a new topic for this?
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Mine had a hole where one of the spot welds was above the master cylinder hole in the bulkhead. Is your battery tray area all solid?
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Mine had a hole where one of the spot welds was above the master cylinder hole in the bulkhead. Is your battery tray area all solid?
battery tray had a hole in it, but it was all welded up
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Got the rack off today, lots of surface rust but no holes or cracks
(http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg547/organika2/DSC_0339_zps7a5e891c.jpg) (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/organika2/media/DSC_0339_zps7a5e891c.jpg.html)
(http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg547/organika2/DSC_0337_zps08a8e6a7.jpg) (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/organika2/media/DSC_0337_zps08a8e6a7.jpg.html)
(http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg547/organika2/DSC_0338_zpsa2d6270d.jpg) (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/organika2/media/DSC_0338_zpsa2d6270d.jpg.html)
(http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg547/organika2/DSC_0340_zps5beb5fad.jpg) (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/organika2/media/DSC_0340_zps5beb5fad.jpg.html)
other than grind the rust off and treat it, what should i do to reinforce it? would stitch welding the seams support it much?
also my rack is very nothcy, is this normal, and the damper has resistance but it doesnt feel like that much
(http://i1243.photobucket.com/albums/gg547/organika2/DSC_0336_zps027cf674.jpg) (http://s1243.photobucket.com/user/organika2/media/DSC_0336_zps027cf674.jpg.html)
sorry to keep annoying people with this, just want to get it sorted, appreciate any help