Club G40 Forum
Technical => Chassis & Braking => Topic started by: Andy on August 07, 2012, 08:31:16 pm
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Anyone know what the Cup Cars ran front and rear? I have 275lb front and 180lb rear in my head, but not sure if that's right!
What everyone else run on their G40s, and how do they feel?
I'm about to order a Gaz coilover setup, so trying to make up my mind what to spec that'll work well with the subframe but still remain acceptable for road use. Have a few ideas on what to try - but lack much baseline info to compare to.
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Paul Caudwell might know- or G40Motorsport?
Karl know too- but lost them/forgot his camera/ didn't answer whenever I asked ::)
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cup cars had ARBs too though. I have 275lb ones on the front of my black one now (with subframe & no ARB) and I still feel it rolls too much on track. Have some 325 ones waiting to go on. But I need some better dampers too.
Pretty horrible on road like that though!
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Paul Caudwell might know- or G40Motorsport?
Karl know too- but lost them/forgot his camera/ didn't answer whenever I asked ::)
No , not on this occasion
I haven't a clue what the spring rates are .. but I can tell you they were pretty stiff ..especially the fronts
G40motorsport would be a good start.
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cup cars had ARBs too though.
Yep, but it gives me an idea of what a well developed track setup with ARB is set to. Yoof's Cup Car stuff doesn't ride too badly on the road - could live with that, but ideally a little bit softer.
What you running at the rear Hayesey?
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i'm sure Paul Cauldwell told me some outrageously stiff poundage for them once?!
Mine will have 200s on the front, 170s on the rear as a "tarmac rally" setup with big tube bilsteins, but mine has fairly long springs on - 10" front and like 14" rear
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I have 275s at the front and 165s at the back. It's firm, not back breaking though. I've heard 225s are ideal for road use up front, and that'd make it comfier. I'm not sure I can be bothered changing mine though, I like how it corners.
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I have 180lb on the back abduction unless you back the darkening off quite abjt i found them a tad to hard for road use, i have backed the damping of i think Im about 7 clicks from softest but please note the dampening adjustment on these is not linear. and they seem just about right now although if i was to choose again i may go for 165 or maybe 150's . i ran these with my h and r on the front the where around 230lb and they where just about right on the road for me never used it on the track and i suspect as hayesey said they would be too soft.
Also worth mentioning as standard gaz come with a very small amount of travel and anything much softer than 275lb will mean riding on the progressive bump stops which is ok for cornernering and handling but not so good for potholes speed bumps etc... i speed mine with a touch more travel and some slightly softer compression damping for more comfort.
i had a mare dealing with gaz Andy to be honest their kit is good stuff but actually getting what i wanted took an absolute age. They took several months to sort the problem. lost the drawings i sent them and consistently sent me the wrong springs on 4 separate occasions. This may have been just an isolated case as every one else sings their praises.
I would just suggest you know exactly what you want and make it very very clear what you want from the beginning. hopefully you'll recived better service than me!!
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What rate have you got on the Gaz on the front - 275lb?
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i couldn't find my exact kit, but however i did find the mk1 golf kit..
460lbs front 285lbs rear..
now i assume they are going to be heavier on the slightly heavier golf but not dramatically..
was there any more talk about ARB on the stageIII subframe conv. ?
a few people want less roll but i've never even had the chance to drive the polo with any set up :(
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What rate have you got on the Gaz on the front - 275lb?
went for 225lb up front, with a shorter body and longer piston to attain the ride height i wanted with more travel.
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i have some ranging from 300-330 if you want any to try dood
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Cheers mate, might give you a shout when the time comes! Plan is to develop a decent compromise for Stage 3 subframe owners wanting to use their car on the road.
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Just tagging on to this post, what was the spring rate on the standard G ?
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standard springs are outrageously soft, i don't know the fronts, but i measured the rears using a press and a corner weight scale and they are 100lb/inch!
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I can say by experience the harshness of a g on stock springs varies immensely with the brand of damper!
stock damper- very soft
koni yellows - variable but harder
ta technix - hard!
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I used to run on Koni Yellows and the lowest setting wasn't bad , but there was a big change in stiffness on the second setting and third was way too hard. I've been told that softer springs respond better to increased rebound rather than increased bump settings,but what price shocks with individual settings?. As for Pinch's 100lb/inch, it seemed very low, but experimenting with my existing AVO's suggests they are not much more at 125 yet I'm finding them prettyharsh.
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What rate you running at the rear Hayesey?
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I've ran a 325lb 8" rear and damping to match with good effect. It was probably not as stiff as you'd think. A setup I tried for a track day with a 275 6" front, but it being a G40 broke its gearbox the day before, and with a new lsd box fitted that night shattered the driveshafts. I got some good mileage in on the known local roads, felt great to chuck about compared to the lighter rates, although not a daily setup, liveable with. Key is in setting the dampers right.
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After reading one of Yoof's books and doing some maths I'm probably going to use something like 325lb fronts and 200lb rear. If it was a track car I'd go much stiffer at the rear, but it'd make the arse end too lively for road use I think. This all depends on whether my latest ARB experiment works though, if it does I'll soften the front rate up. Car's still back at the bodyshop though! :-(
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is it lack of anti roll bar up front that has made you go for the 325lb rate Andy makes me think I've gone a bit soft on the front with 225lb they supply 275lb as standard i have a set of these to try aswell. what length have you gone for ?Also out of interest what book was it ?
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Just for comparison, KW uses 50-140 front(ca 225 Ibs/39,47 nm) and 30-200 springs rear (ca180 Ibs is around/31,6 nm)
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Thanks for the info Frode, only just seen this.
I thought 50-140 means 50N/mm and 140mm length, and 30-200 is 30N/mm and 200mm long? Can anyone confirm?
If that's right, then the KW fronts are circa 285lb/in and the rears are 170lb/in.
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For anyone else following this thread, the KWs use 20-60-80 tender springs.
That means 20N/mm, 60mm ID and 80mm long.
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Took me a while to badger KW into telling me spring ratings, then frode goes and posts them on here a couple days later.
Anyway was quite surprised to see the 50n/mm spring up front, but the 20nm tender takes the brute out of the ride, whilst lowering its rating to 14n/mm untill it is fully compressed and on onto the main spring.
Dual rate spring maths is (1/tender) + (1/main) = A. 1/A= Initial rate.
KW seem to use the 20 60 80 on everything though.
I did some digging on golf 1 ratings, google found one set of V1's with a 60-170 front and 50-200 rear, but also a set of V3's with a set of 50-170 and 40-200's.
Food for thought anyway.
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Dont mean to drag this back up but I have done a bit more testing I have now run both 200lb and 225lb springs up front with 180lb in the rear I found the 200s too soft to be any good the 225lb where better but still a bit too much roll when hard cornering so ive now switched to 350lb as ive got a trackday coming up. I would say the ride has suffered a little but not as much as I thought it would its liveable with for sure. Still not quite as flat in the corners with 230lb front springs and a arb but definantly better.
I just wondered if any one had any suggestion of what sort of rates I can run for my trackday I the back its my first trackday and I dont want to crash the car because the back end is too livley but I dont want shit loads of understeer either I was considering around 275lb or should I go harder ??
The other thing I noticed when going between 225 and 350 was that I could feel the quife working much better in hard tight bends with the softer setup and despite the disconcerting body roll I think I could put down more power. With the 350s I have had the wheels spinning in the same bends when putting full power on not sure if it was both ornust the inside but worth noting. A 225lb spring with an arb would be ideal and something ill look into over the wonter.