Club G40 Forum
Technical => Engine and Transmission => Topic started by: vee-dub90 on April 16, 2012, 02:51:04 pm
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Right, i am about to order a clutch, i have about 280 quid, What should i get?
ive found a black diamond stage 2 for 240 quid but ive seen a couple of reviews for other cars and theyve been bad
or i can get a drivetorque stage 2 one for 196 quid but ive seen no reviews for them
or a 200 quid ebay one..
or a standard luk or sachs one and see how that goes, but my engine is about 160bhp so im not sure, and i cant afford a helix one, so what should i get?
ive seen good and bad about running standard ones as they soon giveway after about 6k
so i need help please! ???
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how much is a helix one these days? That's what I have and it cost me £300 but that was a few years ago. I'd recommend that but I have no experience with Black Diamond and I've never heard of drivetorque.
I'd probably just get a standard one if you can't afford a Helix to be honest. What modifications does the engine have?
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wheres the best place for a helix?
and the car is running an eaton, large fmic, 310cc injectors etc.. but i want to go down the ko3 route soon with a 1341 forged bottom end
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well, ive just phoned up CGmotorsport..
and for a helix pressure plate, road/rally stage 2 friction plate, and a standard thrust bearing, with delivery all in for £417.20 which is supposed to be able to handle 176ftlbs of torque
do i save up an extra 150 quid and get this?
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ok, then I'd definitely get a helix organic clutch kit. If you don't have the money now then I'd save up for it.
Not sure of the best place, I bought mine from Pitstop Developments who don't exist any more. I'm sure someone who's bought one more recently will post up soon.
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that seems pretty expensive to me (but maybe that's the going rate for them now). I thought CGMotorsport did their own kits rather than Helix ones? Also, what type of clutch is it? "road/rally stage 2" is meaningless but I suspect that might mean a paddle clutch, if it's a daily driver I'd not want a paddle clutch they grip like shit to a blanket but they are like on/off switches. I have on in mine as they are best for track, there's no way I'd put up with it daily. You want a Helix Organic plate.
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they said they arent sure if its a paddle or not, the road friction plate is 116 plus vat where as the rally one is 140 odd plus vat, which i think she said copes upto about 150ftlbs, so i could even go for that?
and their own fast road clutch is £157.06 all in or a paddle clutch is £277.06 thats for a full kit aparently..
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That's expensive. I've been looking at Helix clutches myself and found this place following a link from the Helix website. http://www.performanceclutch.co.uk/13ltr-g40-1987-1994/76-4719-2026995-240557-599398.php (http://www.performanceclutch.co.uk/13ltr-g40-1987-1994/76-4719-2026995-240557-599398.php)
They do the paddle and organic set ups. IIRC the paddle is £320 ish?
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looking at it, thats about the same price tbh, as its including everything, pressure plate, friction plate, bearing and shipping
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i phoned helix direct for mine £400 ish quid is for the proper paddle clutch with the cover plate and bearing.
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was that the race/rally one?
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thats a group N rally one technically, yes.
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Any one using a paddle friction plate on a standard pressure plate?
I bought my clutch bout a year ago, it's the Kevlar one Phil jackson was selling..
It's never even done 1 mile in it! Meant to be good for up near 180hp.. A was considering buying paddle plate alone n fitting this... Or this bad idea and pressure plate not allow enough clamp?
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I fitted a cg paddle to my car and took a while to get used to but i actually quite like it now although it can be a pain in traffic up a hill but its not as bad as the horror stories i read on all other sites but they say its an "updated clutch" but i couldn't see the difference between it and standard. it has got better to use with a thousand miles on it and hasn't slipped ever.
One thing i would say about it is that it puts alto more stress on your driveline important going to have to updated my engine mounts due to large amounts of engine transmission moment on down shifting when coming to round about for example.
I think it depends on how tolerant you are of it i hated it for about a month now i like it !
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Check this out.
185/220Nm 195euro.
ccc-motorsport.de
link->http://www.ccc-motorsport.de/Sport-Kupplungen-Schwungscheiben/VW/Polo-2-86C-Bj.10/81-09/94/1.3-G40-85KW-Bj.01/1987-08/1990.html
Thomas
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i have and know of a few people who just ran the helix spinner inside a standard cover plate and have always been fine.
the thing with the polo paddle clutches is they still have springs in them, which does make them more progressive. other cars i've driven have no springs in the plate which are normally the ones you hear of being "like a switch" they are very on/off and a pain to drive in traffic
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well im swaying more towards a paddle one at the moment, and my mate who used one daily in his 250bhp glanza said they arent as bad as people make out, just a bitch to get used to at first, which is pretty much what you guys are saying
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well it's a matter of opinion. I have one in my polo and have for years, I'd not put up with it daily. Can you get your mate to let you have a go and see what you think?
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I often drive a Starlet with a paddle clutch excedy stage 3 (but has compensator springs)
and for a paddle it is not all that harsh..
i will be using the paddle as a 'daily' but for me this is not a problem i am not in a busy town centre.
Has anyone seen torque figures for 220hp g60'd polo ? ..
im starting to think its best a get out a buy one now ...
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well it's a matter of opinion. I have one in my polo and have for years, I'd not put up with it daily. Can you get your mate to let you have a go and see what you think?
he no longer has his glanza now, but i have driven his evo 5, but im unsure of what clutch is in there, it felt a bit different to all of the other cars ive driven so maybe its a paddle im not sure, but i found that easy enough to drive
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i got one in my polo, pain in the ass! its either on or off! no play in it! hate driving around town in it
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this is where i got my fast road helix kit, was the cheapest i could find it for at 320+delivery:
http://www.awesome-gti.co.uk/product.php?xProd=25489&xSec=235 (http://www.awesome-gti.co.uk/product.php?xProd=25489&xSec=235)
despite saying for a 6n, it matches all the part numbers for road road use on a g40 here:
http://www.helix-autosport.com/performance-clutches/volkswagen/ (http://www.helix-autosport.com/performance-clutches/volkswagen/)
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i will be using the paddle as a 'daily' but for me this is not a problem i am not in a busy town centre.
Just a warning although i have got used to and now quite like my paddle clutch i would no way install one in a car i drove on a daily baisis, i would much rather change the standard clutch more often.
Its alot more work to use in daily situations you have to get your gear changes much better especialy down shifts , more thought has to go into driving, parking is harder speed bumps can be a challenge especialy if your car is lowered. queing in multi story car parks and traffic would be pretty bad aswel. i would suggest a drive around a car park in a car with one equiped if you can before putting it on a daily driven car.
i dont mind mine because i drive my car once every one to two weeks.
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the difference in the part numbers dictates the spline differences - G40 is same as early 6ns (upto late 1997) and then late spec 6ns are same as 6n2 etc (98-2002?)
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My civic EG has a b18c with a paddle and a honestly do not fuss over it..
the polo has a wild diff and it pretty low..
plus i am undergoing a g60 charger conv. and 1341cc .. i will be over 220hp hopefully..
so i think a helix paddle is my only option..
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Does anyone have experience of the Helix organic setup on a circa 190 bhp 1341 turbo?
I'm thinking it'd be a bit kinder to the gearbox and I wouldn't be worried about it lasting forever as my mileage will be limited.
*Edit* I just noticed Hayesey had one, how did you get on with it and what spec were you running at the time Paul?
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apparently there for life !
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mine's a paddle clutch not an organic one.
But it is great, it's taken some right abuse. Including getting covered in gearbox oil when an input seal seal failed. I "fixed" the clutch once the leak was sorted by finding some empty motorway, putting it in 5th gear and flooring the throttle and letting the clutch keep slipping till the oil was burnt off. I've since done several track days and the clutch just keeps gripping, never had any slip.
But it is very much an on/off switch.
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I've run a Sachs paddle plate with a stock G40 cover, and it was fine with 165-175bhp and 165lb/ft of torque.
Used it daily when living in Cambridge and did about 8-10k a year in it like that for a couple of years. I used to mainly walk/cycle around town and to work though, and most of the driving was motorway or country ragging. Was a bitch in heavy traffic, so when I started having to drive a lot for work meetings I bought another car!
Current Helix paddle I had re-lined, and it's taken a lot of abuse on a 200lb/ft motor now. That includes hitting it with drag slicks, and previously experimenting with 2nd gear launches off the rev limiter (though not in conjunction with the slicks!). Only issue I have is the cover plate is so stiff it tends to bend the pedal assembly and rapes clutch cables regularly.
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hi andy,
i am using a CG motorsport clutch (friction plate was kevlar been told)
I do not know if the Cover plate on the CG item is anyway uprated but assuming its same as standard, would i have enough clamping power to use a helix/sachs paddle plate to use on possibly 200ft lbs engine ?
or is it essential to use a specifically designed cover plate to be able to use the paddle to contain all the torque..
many thanks!
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I don't know... The uprated cover plate is deffo man enough, so depends whether you want to risk it or not!
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Me and Hywel have both used the Helix paddle clutch with a standard cover in the past and had no problems, running slicks and probably giving it much more abuse in competition than you would on a road car.
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true,
i was debating in my head wether to just continue using the CG motorsport one,
i dont know if it will slip from the start or if it will bear out within a few thousand miles..
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Only issue I have is the cover plate is so stiff it tends to bend the pedal assembly and rapes clutch cables regularly.
i've only done about 800 miles with mine since i fitted it, but the feeling i get through the pedal is like its flexing the pedalbox. doesn't feel very nice to drive with tbh.
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Me and Hywel have both used the Helix paddle clutch with a standard cover in the past and had no problems, running slicks and probably giving it much more abuse in competition than you would on a road car.
But with much less torque, delivered in a more progressive manner than a boosted motor - so I'm not sure it's a guarantee that they're fine for 200lb/ft. Would be interesting to find out though, could save people a lot of money on Helix cover plates!
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think ill be ordering a Helix paddle . costs £169 all in delivered to ma door.
i reckon ill have 200 ft lbs, but its only a guess.. so we'll just see how a get on !
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Personally, in cases like this I prefer to fit the highest rated component I can 1st time round. Unless its going to render the car un drivable I'd prefer to go full paddle once than have to change the clutch twice. Maybe Im the only one who hates gearbox changes!
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To be honest im going to keep both the helix paddle and the CG kevlar (fastroad) clutch at hand..
clutch change is about 1.5hours roughly, can cut time down with a 2poster ramp and some air tools!
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Ahhh. Fair do's!
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well, im going to now save up another 180 quid and buy the helix paddle, and if i find it annoying i will save up and get the organic friction plate and just swap over :)
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I have a CG 4-fin paddle clutch on mine and hasn't failed me yet on a few track days or 1/4 miles. They did use tarted up LUK pressure plates which I reckon is why mine is so easy to live on the highways and why cheaper than Helix :)
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George used one of my helix paddles with his standard G40 pressure plate and it was just a full on no go! whipped the box off and grabbed one of my uprated helix ones and his G Turdbo was rocking again.
i had a helix organic clutch plate on my turbo with a helix pressure plate, but eventually was really struggling to get any gears, a new pressure plate and all was good again.
ive seen three CG friction plates now (paddles) that have had the springs come out!
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Haha probably one of the early ones like Lance had. He sent it back for a re-inforced replacment LOL
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Thought I'd drag this thread back up rather than start another. Has anyone had any experience with the Sachs clutches? I see Andy has a Sachs paddle with stock pressure plate. The prices for the Sachs Organic are only a few quid less than the paddle prices (about £360 for friction and pressure plates.) Anyone have anything on them?
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I had a Sachs paddle with the stock pressure plate, then switched to a full Helix paddle when I went turbo. However, the former combo was fine on a 170lb/ft G40-ladered motor.
I have a vague recollection of Barney's 1341cc with-all-the-trimmings G40 needing to go from an organic Helix to a paddle because the organic item kept slipping.
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I had an organic clutch and it was fine with 170bhp on a Lader but really struggled when i went turbo and was running 194bhp.
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Hi,
I m feeling my clutch is nearing its end, ist getting a bit unpleasant to shift, definately at the lights wen it is a bit uphill...
my car has a 140hp chip & full exhaust system (group N) i suppose its the extra power that is shortening the life of my original clutch (+- 105K miles)
i was looking at this thread, might aswell hijack it :p
i saw some clutches at sandler: http://www.sandtler24.de/englisch/automotive-engineering/engine-components/clutches/helix-clutches/vw/vw-polo-1.3-g40-bj.-87-94
the question is, wich should i get? :) its my daily car (don't use it every day, but its my only one) i m mostly doubting between the typ 70 & typ 76, what do you guys recommend? ceramic or not? is it worth the extra coin? or should i just go for a new regular one as it is a daily?