Club G40 Forum
Club G40 => General Car Chat => Topic started by: dubdetail on July 24, 2011, 12:29:50 pm
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Hello,
I'm Pim and running a business back in Holland. I design and manufacture custom car parts mainly for VW.
On the Moment we're building a demo car. Its a Polo G40 with a large list of upgrades.
At first we want to run the G40 RS2 charger with 62mm toothed belt drive. But with such high charger speeds we plan to run a separate oil system for the charger with a special kind of lubricant to get the best lubrication possible.
With the standard set-up thick engine oil with particles and so, will flow through the charger on fluctuating oil pressures.
I've read on the net that Pitstop developments had such a system. The system is not that hard to design and will be pretty straight forward.
The problem is that i don't know the type of oilpump used by pitstop developments.
Does anyone know which pump was used by pitstop developments?
Earger to know.
The speclist of the demo car:
Block:
-Oversized wossner 76mm Pistons.
-Custom made H-beam Rods.
-Lightened and balanced Crank.
-Lightened and balanced Flywheel.
-Custom designed torque plate to connect the mains to hold them in place during big engine loads and high rpm's.
-Mains fitted with ARP Studs.
-Custom uprated oilpump.
-Waterpump.
-Custom all steel layered head gasket.
-Piston bottom cooled by oil jets.
-Custom dry-sump oil system.
Head:
-Custom ported en polished head.
-Custom valves cut to spec to enable the best possible flow.
-Custom valve guides
-Mechanical valvetrain with solid lifters. (9500rpm)
-Custom springs with titanium caps.
-Custom Billet intake manifold.
-Custom 70mm Throttle valve.
-Custom manifold and exhaust line stainless.
Gearbox:
-Standard internals.
-Helix custom clutchset.
-Qaiffe diff.
-Custom driveshafts.
Chassis:
-Intraxx coilover set.
-Custom sub-frame.
-Custom torque beams on the rearaxle.
-lightweight wings, bootlit and tailgate.
-Polycarbonate side and rear windows.
-FIA Rolcage
Charger:
-RS2 G40 Charger.
-Custom beltdrive kit 62mm pully.
-20mm timing belt.
-Water to air intercooler.
-Separate oil system.
And This list will grow.
Greets, Pim Bonne
Dub-Detail
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Hi and welcome. They used facet fuel pumps and very thin oil like compressor oil. I used to run one but it failed so i got a proper oil pump from mocal for the kit. Works a lot better and i can use better oil for the g-lader.
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yep a facet fuel pump was used but a proper oil pump like mentioned would be more ideal also oil pressure gauge will be needed so you know if any thing fails!
but if you do use a facet i think you need a fuel pressure gauge instead.
also i have a psd charger standalone oil kit with a facet fuel pump for sale!
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Thanks lads,
Chaddarcheese, could you sent me a PM or mail me at info@dubdetail.com
Thanks,
Pim Bonne
Dub-Detail
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9,500rpm and a 62mm pulley. :o
What bearings and seals will you be using in the 'charger?
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The cylinderhead will be capable to handle 9500rpms safe.
I think max power would be achieved between 7000 and 8000rpm. We decided to convert to solid lifters right from the start, so be dont't need to change that when we blow the g40 to haven. After that we'il use a custom made hybrid turbo. And to only way to let that sucker spinn up to boost is displacement gasflow. Since we'il only have 1400cc available we've to make rpm's to get the gas flowing.
Nevertheless, bearings and seals will be chosen later in the progress.
I've got a good connection by skf. They can give me good advice.
Pim Bonne
Dub-Detail
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This is the pump i now use just incase you wondered.
http://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p3652/MOCAL-ELECTRIC-OIL-PUMP/product_info.html
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This is the pump i now use just incase you wondered.
http://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p3652/MOCAL-ELECTRIC-OIL-PUMP/product_info.html
Thanks,
I allready did find such a pump.
Set for G-chargers is already designed:
Number 6 is a option, (it's a thermostat operated oil cooler) because i think de g-charger would not heat the oil that fast with normal use.
(http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/2597/separatesystem.jpg)
1. Charger
2. Catchtank
3. Oil pump
4. Oilfilter
5. Pressure regulator
6. Sandwichplate with thermostat and oil cooler sytem.
For turbo's the system would be the same, only with a bigger catch-tank and a larger oil cooler.
Also the oil line between 1 and 2 will be much larger.
With the pressure regulator i'm using come's a nice feature, it sends the adjusted amount of oil-pressure to the charger and the rest is redirected to the catch tank. Picked up by the pump and send through the circuit again. Doing so will keep the temperature in control. When the oil becomes to hot, the thermostat opens and sends the oil through the cooler.
Pim Bonne
Dub-Detail
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Interesting. Your pic hasn't worked.
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Hmm, on my pc it's working fine.
Tryed again.
For lubrication we use a custom blended oil, It's comparable with gasturbine oil.
But because that oil is poisonous we'il use a non toxic blend.
Pim Bonne
Dub-Detail
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pic is working now. sounds like a very interesting project, please keep us posted with the progress!
The PSD kits never used a cooler or a proper oil pump, they were built to a price in order to sell. A proper oil pump would have increased the price by £150 or more and I doubt anyone would have bought one. But for your own project if money isn't a problem then a proper oil pump is better.
I never used a cooler on mine either, the header tank full of oil is a good enough heat sink, the charger doesn't put too much heat in (unlike a turbo as I now have but this just lubricates from the engine oil). I also just had a 65mm pulley on.
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pic is working now. sounds like a very interesting project, please keep us posted with the progress!
The PSD kits never used a cooler or a proper oil pump, they were built to a price in order to sell. A proper oil pump would have increased the price by £150 or more and I doubt anyone would have bought one. But for your own project if money isn't a problem then a proper oil pump is better.
I never used a cooler on mine either, the header tank full of oil is a good enough heat sink, the charger doesn't put too much heat in (unlike a turbo as I now have but this just lubricates from the engine oil). I also just had a 65mm pulley on.
Pricing is not that high. I'm planning to sell the kits after the system is tested properly.
The basic kit will be around €300,- (£264,81) (catch-tank, facet pump, remote oil-filter, regulator and hoses)
And the basic kit can be uprated with different pumps, coolers etc.
The kit will not only work on g-chargers but also on turbo's.
The engine's oil holds particles in it. These particles build up in the turbo's oil system especially at the hot side bearings and oil return pipe.
Using a special oil prevents particle from building up and keeps the system clean and smooth, the only problem is that the engine can't handle such oil and the engine is the main reason those particles are in the oil.
On normal street cars these particles are not that kind of a issue because temperatures will stay within the limits. But on tuned cars this will give problems as the temperatures are much higher.
We have to change turbo's on a regular basis because particle build up prevents the oil from flowing. And as that happens the turbo's days are counted.
So with the system on it, the turbo will operate on clean special blended oil.
The particle contamination is much slower. So build-up does not occur.
The turbo lives longer a can handle more stress/heat.
Engine oil keeps cooler
Oil pipes don't have to be changed because they stay clean.
And when you shut they engine down, the system can keep the oil flowing untill the turbine stops spinning.
Pim Bonne
Dub-Detail
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What oil are you going to use? Sounds interesting.
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well yes, using a Facet fuel pump, price is OK. I meant that if PSD had used a proper oil pump then it'd go too high and most people probably wouldn't be willing to pay the money.
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actually, iv got 4 pumps to choose from.
€ 70,--Facet
€125,--Brandless diaphragm pump
€180,--Mocal diaphragm pump
€160,--Brandless spurrgeared pump
€250,--Industrial spurrgeared pump
Pim Bonne
Dub-Detail
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What oil are you going to use? Sounds interesting.
That's a company secret. But here's a very little bit of info.
For turbo's
It's a special blend of gas turbine oil (non Toxic) and blended so that there is no residue left behind on bearings hoses etc.
For chargers
It's a special blend of thin compressor oil (non Toxic) with some additional teflon in it and besides a small teflon coating there will be no residu left behind.
Pim Bonne
Dub-Detail.
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Im still g-lader and currently using compressor oil and i use a cap full of zx-1 in with it to help. When my engine is back in i plan to use redline 0w20 i think it is with zx-1 as i run an oil pump in the system. Also run redline in my engine.
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Im still g-lader and currently using compressor oil and i use a cap full of zx-1 in with it to help. When my engine is back in i plan to use redline 0w20 i think it is with zx-1 as i run an oil pump in the system. Also run redline in my engine.
Ok, I think the blend you make is about the same we use. The main difference is that our oil is a true blend. Meaning it's put together to our spec with several ingredients. So we have our own oilblend and we buy it i big packages direct from our supplier.
Especially the turbo oil was a hard one to put together, because of the high temperatures. But it has al the wanted properties right now.
I'm planning to make 10 kits for a first batch in about 4 weeks. Meanwhile we'il run several test with the set-up.
Pim Bonne
Dub-Detail
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I'm using Joe Gibbs XP0 oil, a Facet cube pump ( good for all of 7psi) and an alloy catch tank.
Oil temp. sits at about 50 degrees. Pressure is interesting as it sits at 5 psi on idle, drops to 3psi as the revs increase, which looks as if the charger bearings start to suck in the oil, then rises to 7psi above 6k. Looking at a Walbro fuel pump at £85 giving 15psi.
What Pim said about particles in the oil is true. When I first ran my standalone, it flushed a very small amount of micron dimension ferrous material from the charger which attached itself to the magnetic plug in the catch tank
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So testing is done.
G-charger set-up runs fine.
Turbo set-up needed some minor adjustments. MOCAL pumps can't handle the heat. So we changed it for a industrial pump with cnc-milled metal housing and brass turbine.
We are now ordering al the parts for 10 kits. For those interested email us at info@dubdetail.com.
Pim Bonne
Dub-Detail
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What sort of price are you looking at for a kit and what does it come with? I know you've listed on the previous page but I assume it's different now the pump is confirmed?
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What sort of price are you looking at for a kit and what does it come with? I know you've listed on the previous page but I assume it's different now the pump is confirmed?
Because we're in the process of ordering the parts.
I don't know the purchase prices yet.
The first step is a basic kit:
-Same as PSD with a return for the acces oil pressure to the oil tank.
The basic kit can be up-rated with:
-Oil filter set-up.
-Different pumps.
-Air/Oil cooler set-up.
-Water/oil cooler set-up.
-Special oils.
Pim Bonne
Dub-Detail