Club G40 Forum
Club G40 => Photos and videos => Ongoing Projects => Topic started by: Winston on January 13, 2011, 11:14:42 pm
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First of all Hello and a great forum you have here folks
Ive removed the 1.8 8V out my scirocco due ground clearance issues with my new wheels.. I had planned to fit a 1300cc Mk1 Golf Driver engine till i could afford to build a 1300cc carb turbo engine
I have owned a few Renault 5 GT turbos and my friend Rob is a dab hand at tuning them.. So a GT Turbo carb seemed a good idea.. My friend Josh told me he had seen a Polo at a rolling road day that had already used one so after a quick search on this forum I found that Tommo has used one on his budget turbo set up and was interested to see how he was running his ignition and was quite shocked that his solution was lots of booost <3
A G40 Turbo engine came up for a good price so the Driver engine went out the window lol.. It has a Garret TB036.. I don't think its been running as a Turbo as its missing the oil lines and full downpipe for the turbo but one good thing is it came from mk1 Golf.. Its deffo a project in its self.
I still have my ignition problem with using the carb so im thinking of getting it running on the standard injection and ECU for the time being.. Unless I can use the G40 mangement to run just the ignition? Other ideas are to use the 5 GT turbo renix ignition but that uses the flywheel TDC sensor to adjust the timing and has a fixed dizy (Im a bit new to ignition tbh and any help would be great)
Few Pictures
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h175/76ball/Mk1%20Scirocco%20Blog/IMG_0559.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h175/76ball/Mk1%20Scirocco%20Blog/IMG_0557.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h175/76ball/Mk1%20Scirocco%20Blog/IMG_1085.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h175/76ball/Mk1%20Scirocco%20Blog/IMG_1078.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h175/76ball/Mk1%20Scirocco%20Blog/IMG_1090.jpg)
Few questions
1. Can I use a G40 ECU to run my ignition if i remove the injection?
2. Is a Garret TB036 Turbo to big?
3. Anyone got an ECU for sale?
4. Are G40 & G60 map sensors the same?
Cheers
Winston
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nice project!
I dont no any thing about the turbo you have but i think you should keep it simple use the standard g40 ecu and injection stystem the tried and tested way so you can get the engine installed and working.
also if the turbo is to big i guess it would not be to much or to hard to change the manifold turbo flange to fit a more suitable turbo thats others have used with great results.
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Glad you like it Mr cheese 8)
Its worth noting I don't have a G40 ECU but I have the wiring loom..
Ive just found a Megajolt ECU via google that the mini turbo guys use.. I think I could easy fund it by not having to buy a G40 ECU and sell my loom, inlet and injectors etc.. I would get my friend rob to write a map etc when hes setting up the carb... I will get intouch with him tomorrow to see what he thinks ;D
http://www.autosportlabs.com/megajolte-p-41.html
http://www.turbo-mini.com/66612/65447.html
Ive also got my eye on a friends T2/T25 hybrid just incase my turbo to big... I wanted to use a garret before I even got this setup the K03 is such an ugly looking turbo lol
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No need for anything fancey with the ignition, just get a mk2 dizzy and mess with the mechanical advance, basically just limit the max mechanical advance to around 15-20 degrees BTDC, or more for less boost. Then connect up the vacuum advance to give you a bit more advance cruising off boost for that bit more fuel economy. You will probably have to strip the mk2 dizzy and fit the drive dog off a mk3 one to make it work with your cam.
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Cheers for the reply
I will look into it... Ive got a few different dizzy's I can have a play with 8)
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Sounds like an interesting project!!
If you're only missing a G40 ECU, I'd be inclined to buy one (£50-£100) and get a generic chip (£50-£75 new) to get you up and running. That's deffo cheaper than Megajolt by the time you've bought the Megajolt ECU, sensors, trigger wheel and made a wiring harness.
Alternatively do what Tommo did. R5 turbo carb and the Mk2 Polo ignition system.
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Cheers Andy
I'd need ECU, G60 injectors, AFM sensor, Turbo chip and few other bits to get it running on the G40 Injection.. Which is more than the megajolt would cost me
Tommos Mk2 polo ignition system is looking like the best solution at the minute... Is there no other dizzys that could be modded to fit like the saab ones that retard the ignition when they sense boost?
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You don't need an AFM - G40 Digifant uses a MAP sensor inside the ECU for the load input. :)
Don't forget with Megajolt that you've got to buy a lot more than the ECU - the cost of extra sensors, wiring and connectors soon adds up. I think I spent over £200 on odds n sods to make a new loom when I installed my Emerald ECU - and that was with re-using all the stock G40 sensors!
Mk2 Polo ignition system and carbs is going to be the cheapest.
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The saab dizzys are a route that I explored at some point. They are a bosch dizzy IIRC and very similar to the polo item. IIRC the only turbo related bit is the vacuum advance pod (or 'flying saucer' if you are on the R5T forum :D). I think it retards on boost as well as advancing on vacuum, and its got a nice little guide on the rod which you can file to adjust how much it retards etc. I never fitted one because the system I had on worked ok of a fashion.
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Whats the sensor that goes in the top boost hose? and also do they run a lamba sensor? :-[
All of the sensors and parts for the megajolt can be taken from a 1998 ford escort and my local scrappy are kind to me so they won't cost much, that leaves the trigger wheel and wiring
Just had good look on google about the Saab dizzys and it looks interesting.. I feel i have much more reading to do to help me under stand the ignition side of things abit better and I will strip down the spare Mk2 dizzy
Cheers for the help guys
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Sensor in top boost hose is CO pot/air temp sensor assembly, and they do run a lambda.
Might be worth searching for some old posts by 'Gaz' on the Club Polo forum. He used a Saab 900 dizzy to convert his old Mk2 Polo from points to electronic ignition. Might give you an idea of what mods are required to run a Saab dizzy.
I think the dizzy you'll need is from a low-pressure turbo 900 (classic shape).
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Just fit the Vac advance pod off a saab, it will fit the polo dizzy with some fettling.
While you are looking at saab stuff, its worth checking out the boost controller that they used, its totally awesome. Has a knock sensor and it keeps adjusting the boost levels based on feedback from the knock sensor.
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Saab APC it's called. Fitted to the high pressure turbo models!
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Any idea what year, model and engine they came on?
I missed a dizzy for an old skool 900 16v turbo last night on ebay... gutted!!!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180610829120&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
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Ok here is a question! instead of going in all the trouble of doing the G40 engine conversion just cause your 1,8 engine would hit the ground! Why didn't you just mad a new oilpan!? Or a dry sump conversion (I think that is what it's called)? Where there isn't an oil pan anymore and the oil gets sucked by a vacuum pump!
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Because dry sumps cost ALOT of money, Making a shallow sump would still not give enough clearance and big block 8V's suck imo :D
The Sump clearance is only one of the many reasons for doing this conversion
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Few updates :)
After reading up on Kjet turbo conversions on VWVortex I found out I can use an early VW Rabbit dizzy vacuum canister and this will also retard the ignition on boost like the saab.. I managed to sorce a NOS canister from a very friendly chap on Vortex.. So I intend to fit this to a mk2 Golf 1.3 dizzy..
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/vwpieces/Rabbit%20Stuff/IMG_0076s.jpg)
My mate also welded my engine mount in for me in its new location so it would be rude not trial fit the engine.. It all very tight at the front end and on the bonnet but lots of ground clearance lol
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h175/76ball/Mk1%20Scirocco%20Blog/IMG_1123.jpg)
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The engine is back in after fitting a new cambelt, waterpump and Polo GT camshaft..
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h175/76ball/Mk1%20Scirocco%20Blog/IMG_1291.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h175/76ball/Mk1%20Scirocco%20Blog/IMG_1295.jpg)
Now the engine is in I have ran into a few problems
1. The carb fauls the bonnet on the adaptor plate so ive got to drill and tap the inlet manifold and even then it will be tight.
2. My turbo is upside down so the oil feed and drain wouldn't work.. I can't rotate the housings due to it being seized so Im on the hunt for a new turbo.. wish I had noticed sooner before I had bought lots of parts for the current turbo.. Oh well live you learn.
3. The shocks bottom out due to it being to low.. So I need to purchase some balljoint raisers as I can't raise my turrets like the Mk1 Golf boys because I have no room.. Im just waiting on the company getting back intouch on how to pay.
4. The Looms are going to be a nightmare.. Its looking like I need to make the under bonnet looms from scratch.
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Ive not updated this for sometime. Its not running yet but not far off......
TBH the old turbo T3 was far to big for the 1.3 as well as having the problems of being upside down.. I bought a Garrett T25 Hybrid from a 5 GT Turbo on ebay which is much more suited to the 1.3 it has AR48 compressor and a AR49 Exhaust Housing which is the same size as the T3 but the internals are much smaller being a T2.
Old on the left.. New on the right.. The new turbo is quite abit smaller as you can see but it is also much much lighter to boot.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h175/76ball/Mk1%20Scirocco%20Blog/IMG_1374.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h175/76ball/Mk1%20Scirocco%20Blog/IMG_1378.jpg)
I clocked the turbo housings and fitted a standard T3 actuator... leaving me an oil feed and downpipe left to sort out.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h175/76ball/Mk1%20Scirocco%20Blog/IMG_1574.jpg)
After many hours hunting and messaging people on ebay for mesurements, I bagged this Focus ST intercooler for £27 posted and its a perfect fit.. Ive sorted out the hoses that I lifted from a Volvo T4 in the scrap yard, no pictures of the pipe work yet.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h175/76ball/Mk1%20Scirocco%20Blog/IMG_1654.jpg)
The welder (my mates dad glynn) came up a few weeks ago and spotted me playing with the 5 turbo ktec sidey working out how I could make it into an exhaust for the rocco. In short he told me sell it on and just buy mild steel pipe work and he would knock me one up. With this in mind it would be rude not to increase it up to 3", so I bought a selection of 3" pipe work, silencers and bends from merlin motorsport.
He thinks im mental but he puts my ideas into metal and we have a good laugh at the results.. Im over the moon with this evil monster dowpipe he has created. Just the back box or should that be front box left to do haha. Im still not sure if I have the balls to cut a knotch in the bottom of my wing and have it fully poking out.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h175/76ball/Mk1%20Scirocco%20Blog/IMG_1900.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h175/76ball/Mk1%20Scirocco%20Blog/IMG_1895.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h175/76ball/Mk1%20Scirocco%20Blog/IMG_1888.jpg)
Mainly just the wiring left to sort out now. ;D
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I didn't notice I never updated this and feel I should with all the help you gave me in the early stages of the build.
I thought I was on easy street it was 2 weeks till edition38 show, the cars taxed, MOT'd and Insured. Im left with ironing out the niggles and cleaning....... Nothing is ever that simple haha.
On the first night of testing the engine is shaking the car to bits (I assumed it was the poly engine mounts). It had a loud knocking coming from the off side wheel, it was that bad it felt like the wheel was going to fall off. I fitted a new driveshaft and hub on the offside, this made no difference so I changed the pair on the nearside and the problem was still there. This left me thinking the diff had gone in the G40 gearbox. I fitted a 4 speed 1.3 golf gearbox, the release bearing didn't work with the g40 clutch (doh). I then fitted a Polo GT 5 speed. It still knocked!!!!!
Its now the tuesday before edtion38. I removed my front gearbox mount and the knock was alot better but still worrying. The car had got slower on every outting, the exhaust had got ridiculously loud and it had started running on 3 cylinders. This was down to the plug in cylinder one being covered in oil... Oh no the piston rings have gone!!!! Alot of things now make sense!!
Its now wednesday night the car has to make edition 38!!. The only option is to fit all the turbo stuff to the old standard 1.3 HH engine out of my mates Mk1 jetta and run it on low boost. I phoned my friend Arun in the day to see if he still had the saab dizzy needed to run an ignition amp and he did (HERO).. It was game on by the end of the night 5am the new engine was in and mostly plumbed in with only a minor niggle to get it running left.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h175/76ball/Mk1%20Scirocco%20Blog/IMG_2338.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h175/76ball/Mk1%20Scirocco%20Blog/IMG_2334.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h175/76ball/Mk1%20Scirocco%20Blog/IMG_2339.jpg)
Thurday afternoon.. I get all the niggles sorted and come to start it. After alot of faffing with the ignition timing it fires up but the inlet is exhaust heated on an early 1.3, (I had cut this off the old inlet because it fouled the G40 head). so this left exhaust fumes pissing out the head haha. This was solved with a quick manifold swap. With this sorted I came to fire it up again but with more timing faffing it would not fire up. Morale is very low and thoughts of missing another edition38 are looming....
Its now early friday morning. Ive even got the Haynes manual out!!! This led me to look at the timming marks and they were wrong, the bottom end was a tooth out (this was why it was hard to start in the Jetta) I lined it all up and recharged the battery.... It fires!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Right!!!! I best go get my camping stuff ready.
The car made it to edition38 and back with no problems and ive been driving it daliy (ish) ever since. The VDO boost gauge I bought doesn't work but the actuator maxes out at 10psi so semi safe(ish) boost level.
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h175/76ball/Mk1%20Scirocco%20Blog/IMG_2352-1.jpg)
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h175/76ball/Mk1%20Scirocco%20Blog/IMG_2349.jpg)
It is pretty laggy (I think it needs a milder cam) but it comes on boost strong. I left the standard 4 speed clutch, it hates boost and starts slipping on boost in no time. The exhaust is abit to loud also.
So plans over the winter are to fix the G40 bottom end and fit a soild lifter 1.0 GL head with a 1,3 HK cam. fit an uprated clutch and a 5 speed box and make the exhaust more subtle. ;D
Thanks for reading
Winston
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what size intercooler pipes did you end up using. Ive got an st intercooler coming soon as my mate works at ford and is picking me one up for free.
I just dont know what the pipe diameters are.
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I have one of those and I can measure at some point! What are u gonna use it for? if u planing on using in on a G40 its a bit too long.
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I "think" I used 2.25" for the intercooler but went up to 2.5" for the rest of the pipe work.
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I have one of those and I can measure at some point! What are u gonna use it for? if u planing on using in on a G40 its a bit too long.
Ill make it fit. ;D
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here is an idea of how long it is!