Club G40 Forum
Technical => Engine and Transmission => Topic started by: dani1326 on December 08, 2010, 04:39:34 pm
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before i slap on my 17% smaller charger pulley, camshaft and custom map i need to make sure my MAP sensor is up to it ( how do i test if it is an uprated one?? )
sorry to be a pain but this is my first G40
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how much boost will you be running? The only real way to tell what map sensor you have fitted is to open up the ECU and look at it. I reckon it's highly unlikely to have been changed though unless the car was already running significantly more than 1 bar when you got it (and whatever has been done to it has been done properly).
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how much boost will you be running? The only real way to tell what map sensor you have fitted is to open up the ECU and look at it. I reckon it's highly unlikely to have been changed though unless the car was already running significantly more than 1 bar when you got it (and whatever has been done to it has been done properly).
its running 11psi atm but im unsure what it will be running with the 17% smaller charger pulley :/
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this is with an eaton charger isn't it? I've no idea what boost to expect from that. I'd probably just go for it and see what happens. Changing the map sensor isn't a simple task as you'll need a different ecu remap to suit and given the spec, you'll be unlikely to find anything suitable off the shelf so would need a custom remap.
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this is with an eaton charger isn't it? I've no idea what boost to expect from that. I'd probably just go for it and see what happens. Changing the map sensor isn't a simple task as you'll need a different ecu remap to suit and given the spec, you'll be unlikely to find anything suitable off the shelf so would need a custom remap.
yeh its an eaton pal.... its already having a custom map :) .... iv just txt the past owner he said he thinks it was a 2bar map sensor cos its running 1bar atm... but ant 11psi not even a bar?? but he is unsure eva
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14 psi is a bar. well its actually 14.5
pm a few eaton owners (Vwmk3jon, giorgio, lance) and find out what they were running, to give you some idea of what to expect!
whats your full spec list from the previous owner?
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11 PSI is less than a bar but the absolute pressure is 25.5 PSI (11 PSI more than the normal 14.5 PSI/1 bar atmospheric pressure). The standard pressure sensor is 2 bar absolute i.e. it works up to 1 bar above atmospheric pressure (about 14.5 PSI on a boost gauge). You need to fit a 2.5 or 3 bar sensor if you are intending to run more than 1 bar of boost.
At a rough guess (as I don't really know how Eatons respond to spinning faster) you will get 117/100 x 25.5 = 29.8 PSI i.e. just over 15 PSI of boost so you should be just on the limit of the standard sensor.
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this is with an eaton charger isn't it? I've no idea what boost to expect from that. I'd probably just go for it and see what happens. Changing the map sensor isn't a simple task as you'll need a different ecu remap to suit and given the spec, you'll be unlikely to find anything suitable off the shelf so would need a custom remap.
yeh its an eaton pal.... its already having a custom map :) .... iv just txt the past owner he said he thinks it was a 2bar map sensor cos its running 1bar atm... but ant 11psi not even a bar?? but he is unsure eva
Im sure its a standard ECU cause its running the standard chip yes?
1 bar (or 2 absolute if you include the 1 bar or the earths atmosphere) is standard
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most of that went over my head lol.... iv just took some pics of my ECU it looks standrd to me :/
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14 psi is a bar. well its actually 14.5
pm a few eaton owners (Vwmk3jon, giorgio, lance) and find out what they were running, to give you some idea of what to expect!
whats your full spec list from the previous owner?
from what i no its just a full engine rubuild ( standard ) and the eaton slaped on...
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(http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/ww60/bally08/bafc229f.jpg)
(http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/ww60/bally08/d91cc209.jpg)
(http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/ww60/bally08/35863703.jpg)
(http://i705.photobucket.com/albums/ww60/bally08/43bfbac2.jpg)
I believe thats totally standard 200kpa??
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map sensors are normally rated in absolute pressure. Where zero is actually a vacuum. When people talk about boost pressure they normally use relative pressure where zero is actually atmospheric pressure (1 bar or 14.5 psi at sea level). The Bosch map sensors (and possibly all map sensors) are rated in kPa (kilo-pascal) where 100 kPa is near enough to 1 bar as damn it. The standard G40 map sensor is 200kPa which means it'll read to 100kPa relative pressure (above atmospheric). So that's what you'd describe as 1 bar on a boost gauge.
So if you are going to increase boost pressure much above 1 bar then you really need to change the map sensor for something that doesn't top out at 1 bar. The most common one is a 250kPa sensor which will read to ~1.5 bar boost pressure. It's not as simple as just changing the sensor though as the entire ecu map has to be altered to take into account the different scale from a different sensor.
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yeah thats the standard 200kPa map sensor. It's maxed out at 1 bar boost.
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yeah thats the standard 200kPa map sensor. It's maxed out at 1 bar boost.
ill get a map sensor ordered then..... its getting a custom map done by jabba anyway but with the cam, smaller pulley and 4 branch i had to make sure the map sensor is up the the job..
im just on the mini forum trying to find out that boost the eaton will run with a 17% smaller pulley so i no what map sensor to get
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No luck with finding out how much boost ill be running :/ im sure the largest map sensor is 1.5bar so ill go with that....
how hard are they to fit??? i found this and it looks pretty simple http://www.crea2.de/map-sensor%20g40.pdf
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yeah thats the standard 200kPa map sensor. It's maxed out at 1 bar boost.
ill get a map sensor ordered then..... its getting a custom map done by jabba anyway but with the cam, smaller pulley and 4 branch i had to make sure the map sensor is up the the job..
im just on the mini forum trying to find out that boost the eaton will run with a 17% smaller pulley so i no what map sensor to get
boost will be different on e G40 engine compared to a mini, G40 is smaller so there is less space for the air to fill = higher boost than a regular engine, same amount of air its just squeezed into a smaller space if you get me?
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yeah thats the standard 200kPa map sensor. It's maxed out at 1 bar boost.
ill get a map sensor ordered then..... its getting a custom map done by jabba anyway but with the cam, smaller pulley and 4 branch i had to make sure the map sensor is up the the job..
im just on the mini forum trying to find out that boost the eaton will run with a 17% smaller pulley so i no what map sensor to get
boost will be different on e G40 engine compared to a mini, G40 is smaller so there is less space for the air to fill = higher boost than a regular engine, same amount of air its just squeezed into a smaller space if you get me?
ohh oki mate thanks
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Yep, no need to change the map sensor unless as already mentioned you are producing more than 1 bar (14.5 psi) of boost. The G60 stock map sensor is the same 200kpa version as the G40 one
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3714216-MAP-Sensor-upgrade-both-on-VW-CORRADO-G60-250Kpa-VW-T4-115Kpa (http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3714216-MAP-Sensor-upgrade-both-on-VW-CORRADO-G60-250Kpa-VW-T4-115Kpa)
Even with a 58mm pulley, mine would only boost to 11 psi.
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your making assumptions here mate - there is no point looking on a mini forum to see what boost they make with a 17% smaller pulley as they might be using a different sized crank pulley! - which would mean their boost value would be completely different to your own. as well as the cylinder capacity making a difference. i know my car produces more boost then giorgio's as his engine has a big valve head - lots of things to take into account
my old rallye had an uprated map sensor standard (earlier 1h engine) and had a 250kPa sensor. i have bought an uprated one from andy on here for my custom map - not the same sender but one which does the same job.
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your making assumptions here mate - there is no point looking on a mini forum to see what boost they make with a 17% smaller pulley as they might be using a different sized crank pulley! - which would mean their boost value would be completely different to your own. as well as the cylinder capacity making a difference. i know my car produces more boost then giorgio's as his engine has a big valve head - lots of things to take into account
my old rallye had an uprated map sensor standard (earlier 1h engine) and had a 250kPa sensor. i have bought an uprated one from andy on here for my custom map - not the same sender but one which does the same job.
Yer I no now mate thanks... Im waiting until iv fitted the pulley before I order a 1.5bar map sensor but I'm assuming I'll defo need one as I'm runni g 11pis withe th standard pulley
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The G60 on the Corrado stills boosts the same as a g40, since the cylinder capacity is larger which compensates for it, therefore fitting a 68mm pulley will still pull 1bar boost on the G60 engine.
RichieK used to pull 1.5/1.6bar on his G40-G60 Conversion.
On the Eaton, iirc ChrisG40 was pulling 18psi on his AWT eaton conversion, could have been 22psi, can't remember. It didn't hit max boost straight away, like the G60 conversion does, the eaton will build the boost so max rpm would find you max boost.
Either way, you'll need a larger map sensor period.
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There is no problem running 1,15-1,2 bar boost on the stock sensor. If it is mapped properly.
I've mapped a 16vT running 1,4 bar on the standard 200 kpa sensor. It works fine.
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I am using an eaton with my g40 and a standard engine! It produces 1,2 to 1,3bars depending on the weather and it works fine with standard sensor and ecu! I am pushing 143hp at the crank! I can only roughly calculate that with a 17% smaller pulley you will be producing around 1,4 to 1,5bar! Hope this helps!
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There is no problem running 1,15-1,2 bar boost on the stock sensor. If it is mapped properly.
I've mapped a 16vT running 1,4 bar on the standard 200 kpa sensor. It works fine.
There's all the problem- most pressure transducers have double their capacity as a brief 'overload' so diaphrams don't strech/break if they're exposed to a higher pressure than desired. Their accuracy above this limit is questionable to say the least.
We have problems at work with Druck transducers costing circa £1k each once they've been overpressured.
For the sake of a £40 sensor, and the cost of fitting, it's a much better and safer option. In my opinion it's not mapped properly if you've clipped the limit of the sensor.
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my eaton with a 19% smaller pully ran 19psi on full boost
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my eaton with a 19% smaller pully ran 19psi on full boost
thats what i like to hear :)... was it all mid range power ?? iv been told the 17% is the best compromise for mid and high, not sure if thats correct
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There is no problem running 1,15-1,2 bar boost on the stock sensor. If it is mapped properly.
I've mapped a 16vT running 1,4 bar on the standard 200 kpa sensor. It works fine.
There's all the problem- most pressure transducers have double their capacity as a brief 'overload' so diaphrams don't strech/break if they're exposed to a higher pressure than desired. Their accuracy above this limit is questionable to say the least.
We have problems at work with Druck transducers costing circa £1k each once they've been overpressured.
For the sake of a £40 sensor, and the cost of fitting, it's a much better and safer option. In my opinion it's not mapped properly if you've clipped the limit of the sensor.
I know, I've told him not to go over 1,1 ;)
It has been working for 1,5 years now
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Yet James' T25 turbo killed a MAP sensor running 1.2-1.4 bar very quickly. It's going to be luck of the draw, as Yoof said - they're designed to withstand transient spikes, but only for a brief period. At best you'll stretch the diaphragm with time and throw the map out.
Even if you don't damage the MAP sensor quickly, you run out of resolution on the map - so there's no way the microprocessor knows whether you're at 1 bar or 1.4 bar. So yes, you can still map the car, but it's always going to be compromised - much like if you're make peak power much above 6500rpm, you run out of map resolution.
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with the 19 percent pullymy car pulls like a train and quite frankly scares the crap out of me lol i love it
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with the 19 percent pullymy car pulls like a train and quite frankly scares the crap out of me lol i love it
Hmmm might have to look Into getting a 19% on my spair changer :)
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iv just been out in the g40 with NO belt slip and the 18% pulley its running just under 16psi fom what i can see when im not hanging on lol
will i need the 1.5 bar map sensor?
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you'll get away with 16psi on the standard one I'd say, as long as it's been mapped well. How long the map sensor will last is anyone guess. Maybe five centuries, maybe five minutes but since that's only 1.5psi over standard then I reckon it'll be reet.
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you'll get away with 16psi on the standard one I'd say, as long as it's been mapped well. How long the map sensor will last is anyone guess. Maybe five centuries, maybe five minutes but since that's only 1.5psi over standard then I reckon it'll be reet.
thanks mate, would i be better off just getting a 1.5 map sensor?? ill be geting a custom map by PPP
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If you plan on increasing boost in the future then yes
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If you plan on increasing boost in the future then yes
No I don't think I will be not exactly much more I can do it achieve more
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If you plan on increasing boost in the future then yes
No I don't think I will be not exactly much more I can do it achieve more
I'll defo need one as it almost hits 19psi with belt dressing on :o
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So much for your "NO belt slip" comment then, haha :)
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So much for your "NO belt slip" comment then, haha :)
I o eating my words now, normally I could hear it, feel it or the battery light would come on because I carnt see the boost guage but took a mate out and he pointed it out.... Wish it could be eliminated some how lol
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toothed belt!
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toothed belt!
iv tryed to get hold of one but im running an eaton charger and so far no luck finding one
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no you'd probably have to get something made.
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no you'd probably have to get something made.
hmmm i thought so.... havent got a clue what specs they are or where to get them made up
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iv just been out in the g40 with NO belt slip and the 18% pulley its running just under 16psi fom what i can see when im not hanging on lol
will i need the 1.5 bar map sensor?
You should focus on FLOW, not boost
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Well I am using a 5pk belt along with my eaton and i barely ever see any belt slipping! You just have to tighten it and maybe replace it every 3-4 months cause it wears out! That's what I do! and its a 10 minutes job!
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Well I am using a 5pk belt along with my eaton and i barely ever see any belt slipping! You just have to tighten it and maybe replace it every 3-4 months cause it wears out! That's what I do! and its a 10 minutes job!
Whe do you get your belts from I chew them up in weeks.... It was a brand new one a week ago now itw wearing thin.... :/
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I am in Greece so I get them from a store close to where I live ;D! They are Gates Micro-V XF 5pk belts!
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I am in Greece so I get them from a store close to where I live ;D! They are Gates Micro-V XF 5pk belts!
Never mind then.... But I burn them fast unsure why