Club G40 Forum
Club G40 => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Justin14100 on November 23, 2010, 01:20:41 pm
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Ok. Here we go!
Over the last few months I have been sapping up throttle bodies for sale.
I spent this weekend in our machine shop calculating butterflies because thats the most important bit of the whole throttle body. we calculated the chamfered edge and made a jig to be able to make the 51mm butterfly with chamfered edges (for best seal) Im testing a 45mm one in a standard body at the moment and it hasn't stuck or hunted revs yet. works real sweet. (much better than my riveted de-wedge and much much better than the standard wedged body i just took off)
So in the next few weeks (maybe this week) we will be making a 51mm to test. I have also got the top t-peice ported to match the 51mm opening and ported + polished the rest.
Photo's of the test:
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5201/5201484430_3205662ef9.jpg)
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5087/5200892451_8e5486fa39.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4127/5201488340_d179555302.jpg)
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5205/5201490030_dc4ec853f3.jpg)
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5125/5200901295_587fac8e92.jpg)
I really wanted to make something to almost OEM spec and our 45mm test butterfly seals excellently!
Going to road test the 51mm when we get them going shortly.
So our units will consist of:
Ported & Matched t-peice.
51mm butterfly with chamfered edge.
New gasket between t-peice and main unit (i want to add a tiny lick'o sealant because of the smaller size (cut to match)
Price will be £150 exchange
Contact me if you have any questions.
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nice bit of engineering going on here.
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good to see that someone is doing these properly. once i get back on track with the car sometime in the new year i shall be back to see how the tests went on the 51mm's for sure! hope all goes well for the testing!
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Nice Work! What kind of differences will i get from using 51mm Throttle body
Cheers
Rich
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Thanks guys, we have spent a long time working to get the chamfered edge the same as the originals, then we had to make a jig to be able to machine them. has taken us some time we first started talking about it back in Feb!
51mm should make it much more rev happy, i did a search a while ago for some quotes on what people thought but i suppose people with experience with them will have to post on this thread!
Will let you guys know how the tests go. should be real soon!
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mite end up buying a butterfly from you mine was done by juan but has pretty much no chamfre on it ! so i have a feeling it will hunt revs. keep up the good work
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I'm thinking of suppling some de-wedged butterflies instead of screws / rivets or liquid metal.
we can do anything between 45 and 51 if anyone needs be!
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Glad its all going well mate. Defently gonna have one off you.
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Nice to see someone with Passion in their work instead of just financial gain.
Clearly you enjoy the challenge! A man after me own heart.
Good Lad Justin.
Fred.
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Ok, with all my uni work ect these have taken longer than expected. Gotta drive a near 200 miles to get to my dads machine shop too!
Had some great progress over the weekend though. The 45mm i had with our home made butterfly has been working great over xmas so our angle calculations and machining paid off, great seal!
We finally turned our first few 51's. Though one of them, perhaps had a little too much:
(http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy258/Justin14100/IMG_0299.jpg)
oops! :D fear not, it is saveable, current plan is to sleeve it i think. top hole in it is the hole to one of the screws that hold on the WOT sensor. so if anyone asks if 51mm the biggest you can go? yes. yes it is. ;)
anyway. I ended the day with a full working 51mm test sample to make sure ours actually work first:
(http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy258/Justin14100/IMG_0303.jpg)
All i can say is WOW. revs so much more freely, its like a bike! mine is a daily and i love it. off boost driving is a little more pokey too, which as a student, is welcomed happily for my eco drives haha!
we got a great seal again with our elliptical + chamfered butterfly and had no problems on my 200 mile drive home. Got one to assemble after we perfect the porting of the top elbow, I want to get that as good as possible to get the max out of these and should have a few more to follow shortly after that.
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;D good to hear someone has done this properly! looks very good!
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Superb work Justin, very impressive indeed. 8)
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Nice one justin. Looks like your working hard. Keep it up! 8)
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would also be interested in just a 51mm de-wedged butterfly what price would they be? nice work btw!
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Nice work chap :)
Would be interested in a 51mm TB too.
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would also be interested in just a 51mm de-wedged butterfly what price would they be? nice work btw!
Sadly its not quite the case of just cutting a 51mm flap and sending out, each is cut to the size that the body is bored to, which is slightly different occasionally (only 1 of 3 broke through the wall)
I did learn today more about PSD's ones. they were a 50.8 measurement (which may be why one of mines walls broke but the 0.1mm on each side wouldn't have made much difference) and steve used to get a 50.8mm disk and fettle them down by hand, or so someone told me he did. Ours are machined so they are more accurate.
The 51mm test driving is going OK so far, it appears the rev's do sometimes stick at 2k rpm and not idle (no hunting or jumping in revs though) - though it seems to only be when the car is between cold and running temp - had this on 1 or 2 other bodies now (one being a de-wedge with rivets the other being a wedged one) so may clean up my ISV and see what difference it makes. Bar this one slight issue its been fantastic.
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Hi guys, should have two available soon, I've just gotta road test them both / set them up properly in the next week. (Pics soon)
Have a new way to do the porting on the T - Piece too after the original few. Should all have a sand blasted finish too.
As for the 40% that have broken though that we wanted to sleeve, we decided to see how far we can get one - got to 52.7mm before chickening out. So we should be able to sleeve to a 51mm instead of only a 50mm. Will need some time testing these / getting all the holes in it right. We would heat up the body / cool the sleeve down to make sure it was a very snug fit.
With enough balls we could take one to 53mm and sleeve to a 52mm - worlds first G40 52mm body anyone? haha, not sure if the casting could go that far though, walls break through at 51 so another mm from each side is brutal. Later on ill get the 52.7mm pics up if anyone is interested.
Thanks!
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Said 52.7mm:
(http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy258/Justin14100/IMG_0439.jpg)
compared to a standard butterfly:
(http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy258/Justin14100/IMG_0443.jpg)
Said 2 available:
(http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy258/Justin14100/IMG_0445.jpg)
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Very nice work Justin, do you wanna have a go at mine yet?
Did you get my last pm?
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Very nice work Justin, do you wanna have a go at mine yet?
Did you get my last pm?
Got you're PM mate thought I replied? perhaps not.
Will tackel your one as soon as i've sorted out the sleeving and we know we can do it - incase i brake the wall of yours
makes it harder when its not exchange but I want to make sure I can do it incase the wall breaks (40% have so far)
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Have u cured the high idling problems yet?
I'm really interested?
just dont fancy giving away my perfectly working tb and £150 for one that's great on boost but bit iffy any other time?
Thanks tez
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Have u cured the high idling problems yet?
I'm really interested?
just dont fancy giving away my perfectly working tb and £150 for one that's great on boost but bit iffy any other time?
Thanks tez
Come to the conclusion that its not a body issue - had 3x mine on it, they're all the same - fine when the engine is started, then when its warming up it the revs will stick at 2k and not idle, once warm its fine - but if the temp drops again it does it. think its my ISV - had about 5 bodies on my car now and they have all done it i think - even a standard wedged one. all setup right too. waiting to sort out my ISV but from how its temperature based and happened on bodies that were not my 51's I'm fairly sure its not the bodies.
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Ah .. The car has a cam and few other mods runs really lumpy..
Wat kind of turn over time from when a send a throttle to recieving one back?
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Ah .. The car has a cam and few other mods runs really lumpy..
Wat kind of turn over time from when a send a throttle to recieving one back?
Well its an exchange basis: So when your body comes in I'll send you out a fresh 51mm, a few days really, reasonably quick. Check the traders section / send me a PM for more info about what you get / how it works.
Thanks.
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Last post was long time ago, but I have some news. I have just received my throttle body and it is done up to 52,61 mm (diameter on the height of the butterfly), on the edges diameter is 53,16 mm.
Below photo
(http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/8/przepustnica525mm.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/52/przepustnica525mm.jpg/)
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Where abouts are you located? so maybe i could drive to you and swap mine for a bored one there as i cant really afford to have my car off the road.
Many thanks
Rich
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52.6? Wow, any idea how the machinist achieved this? We have started filling up the area in the throttle sensor box to strengthen the body cause they break through at 51mm quite often which is more the material being pushed out rather than lack of material.
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That pic looks as if the boring is slightly off center.
Could that be how they acheived it.
I maybe talking Poohdoo of course.
Daft question Justin but what make and type of boring bar are you using.
I use indexible Iscar boring bars with almost mirror like finish on alloy.
Fred.
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We were using a boring bar we got from eBay which was a great finish, but now we are measuring them and offsetting them (as we had a few break through) as well as using chemical metal on the most common wall that breaks through so we don't use the boring bar on the current ones, with the offset I think we could get to 52mm but I think its a big risk with walls that end up being too thin so you could be right on the offset in the photo mate, well done!
(http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy258/Justin14100/IMG_3129.jpg)
yo dawg I heard you like throttle bodies.
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I do not know how it was achieved. I have just sent a stock TB and after a few days it was done.
On 2 throttle bodies only 1 is good. On the 2nd one there appeared some holes.
Anyway, one is good and works well.
Below photo of this throttle body. On the left is 48 mm, on the right 52,6 mm.
(http://i1119.photobucket.com/albums/k622/PR23M3K/th_2011-12-03115426.jpg) (http://s1119.photobucket.com/albums/k622/PR23M3K/?action=view¤t=2011-12-03115426.jpg)
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I think it would have to be very carefully measured and offset. I also think you might be very lucky with the casting. Good work though, maybe I need to have a play.