Club G40 Forum
Technical => Superchargers / G-Lader => Topic started by: domisgar on August 10, 2008, 06:17:50 pm
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Hi guys
Ive got a stand alone oil system n using an upgraded brass geared pump.
[attachment=106]
Been looking of the best oil for the charger bearings and stumbled apon this, it called GM supercharger oil.
[attachment=107]
Has any heard of it and using it? Or what is every1 eles using and pros n cons of the oils?
Cheers guys
Dom
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no idea about the oil, I guess it'll be designed more for Rootes blowers and Eatons but it might be OK. To be honest, just normal engine oil will be fine.
That's a nice pump, can I ask where you got it and how much it was?
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As hayesay said ONLY in eaton and lysholm charger. It's super sythentic oil ( it has awful smell) and it need replacement every 50.000km (for your charger good).
PS: It sounds kind like i'm your dad but do not touch it with bear hands, use always gloves. Also i use GM oil products in my G and i'm very satisfied...
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Ive just heard ppl using thinner machine oil? as the normal engine oil was 2 thick for the little electric pump. is it ok for the high speed charger appilcation?
Just trying 2 find an oil which is best 2 pro-long the life of the charger!!!
ebay theres a company called easy_flow_pumps.
it was a bit pricey at £86.99 with p&p! but well worth it, tho it needed a few bits 2 get it 2 fit the oil lines and the bailey pre oil filter.
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I use machine oil in my stand alone, it's just the same stuff I use in my compressor. Shell Helix oil of some sort. But really, I only do that because I am using a fuel pump in my stand alone kit and using thicker oils would overwork it.
I think since you've got a proper oil pump you should just use a good quality engine oil, it will be the best thing.
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You make a very good point! the charger was designed 2 run and engine oil.
Thanks guys.
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im thinking about having a go at making my own stand alone oil system, but i dont really know where to start! Im on a tight budget, so am hoping to use a diesel fuel pump, to pump the oil. what sort of flow rate would i need, will i have to regulate a derv pump down, what other bits will i need? oil reservoir etc, any help much appreciated
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I just use a Facet fuel pump, not ideal but does the job as long as you use thin oil and they only cost about £20.
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what other bits will i need? i presume a reservoir off some description and some hoses.
How did you power the pump? did you have it on a seperately switched circuit or did you have it so it will start running as soon as the ignition was on. will i need to use a relay for the pump?
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I use an old motorbike oil tank as the reservoir, cost next to nothing. A lot of the expense of the PSD stand-alone kits was the gucci aluminum tank.
How you wire it is up to you. Personally, I used a 12v relay switched by the ignition feed which also switches the fuel pump and ecu relays on with the high-amp side of the relay powered directly from the battery. Just requires a 12v relay, some wire, a fuse.... that's about it. When I start the car, I turn the ignition on and let the pump run for a few seconds until I see oil pressure start to rise on the gauge I have connected to the oil outlet of the charger before starting the car. That way you know the bearings are in oil before spinning the charger on the starter.
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[quote pid=3414 author=hayesey date=1219162217] I turn the ignition on and let the pump run for a few seconds until I see oil pressure start to rise on the gauge I have connected to the oil outlet of the charger before starting the car. That way you know the bearings are in oil before spinning the charger on the starter.[/quote]
Nice touch that, and a dam good idea too..... think one or two more may copy that !!
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thanks for the help hayesey
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did you require a small oil cooler for your system hayesey? or is the reservoir sufficient to disipate any heat generated
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I dont use a cooler, it seems to stay relatively cool really. Cooler than the engine oil gets.
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ok cool, one final question! what sort of size reservoir have you gone for? 1 litre, 500ml?
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er, I guess it holds more like 0.5l than 1l
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ive also posted a question about stand alone oil systems on a different forum and someone suggested maybe using just an in-line filter on the oil feed to the charger, do you think that if this was coupled to some sort of regulator that it would be almost as good as a stand alone sytem?
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I've heard of people talking about using a pressure reg on the standard oil supply yeah. It's a good idea, not sure where you can buy such things but then I've never looked.
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[quote pid=3414 author=hayesey date=1219162217]How you wire it is up to you. Personally, I used a 12v relay switched by the ignition feed which also switches the fuel pump and ecu relays on with the high-amp side of the relay powered directly from the battery. Just requires a 12v relay, some wire, a fuse.... that's about it. When I start the car, I turn the ignition on and let the pump run for a few seconds until I see oil pressure start to rise on the gauge I have connected to the oil outlet of the charger before starting the car. That way you know the bearings are in oil before spinning the charger on the starter.[/quote]
That sound a good idea can u expand on that? What relay u using and which wires for the live?
Id like 2 wire mine like that as its on a switch straight from the batt.
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I guess I'll make a proper FAQ then but for now:
parts:
- 1x 12v relay. I used a SPDT 30A relay (maplins code: N00AW) simply because I had one knocking about already. I don't think the pump uses anything like 30amps but it doesn't really matter. you could also use a SPNO relay but they are about 50p more expensive from Maplin for reasons unknown to me.
- 1x in-line fuse holder. Ideally waterproof I used Maplins code: DR82D.
- 1x fuse suitable for above. I used a 15amp fuse as again, I had it knocking about. I can't remember what the power rating of the pump is but the 15amp fuse has never blown so it's obviously less than 15amps (I would imagine significantly so). In fact I've just done a quick google search now and the info seems to suggest that the current draw will be less than 2amps so I should probably be swapping that 15a fuse for a much lower one! Prob 5amps.
- "Some" wire. Needs to be the correct type to withstand under bonnet temps. Easily available from places like Maplins, Car Builder Solutions etc...etc.... Make sure it can handle MORE than the amp rating of the fuse you are using, you want the fuse to blow way before you get near the point where wires will start melting. Get at least some black or brown for earths and red for live wires.
- various crimps. Ring crimps for earth wire(s) and connecting to battery terminals, spade crimps to connect to relay itself. Possibly a joining crimp to connect the ignition wire from the wire going to the existing fuel pump and ecu relays (although personally I soldered this and recommend you do the same if you are ok at doing soldering).
Wiring: (I will make a diagram tonight and post this as a proper FAQ)
- position the pump somewhere near the charger, I have it mounted to a plate I welded on top of the chassis leg just in front of where the earth strap bolts on. I put a piece of rubber between the pump and plate to try to soak up some vibrations.
- there should be enough black wire on the pump when you buy it so that you can just put a ring crimp onto the earth wire and then bolt this to the earth point the strap from the charger goes to.
- decide where you are going to position the relay. I bolted it to the bulkhead at the top right in front of the battery so it's not going to get wet.
- you'll connect four wires to the relay: 12v from battery, earth (might as well come directly from battery), signal from the igntion switch (best to connect up near the ecu and fuel pump relays) and the positive supply to the pump at the front of the engine bay. If you are using an SPDT relay as I did, you will have one empty connection on the relay which you can ignore. Will add diagram....
- put the in-line fuse inbetween the 12v live supply which goes directly from the battery +'ve to the +'ve side of the relay. Put the fuse as close to the battery terminal as possible to eliminate the chance of the wire insulation breaking and causing a short circuit.
- to get the signal connection, locate the black wire which goes into the fuel pump and ecu relays. These are both clipped into a bracket on the side of the ecu itself. You'll see a single black wire coming out of the loom into one relay and another black wire coming out of the same connection and off to the other relay. Find a suitable place to cut into this wire and then re-connect it up with the 3rd wire now going to the new relay you are installing. If you have a soldering iron and know how to use it then I'd always recommend soldering the connection but otherwise use a joining crimp but make sure you make a good joint. If the joint fails you could end up with the fuel pump cutting out causing the engine to run lean! Make sure it's well insulated too, heat-shrink is best.
Then you need to get supply and return pipes for the oil. You need a nice thick pipe going from whatever you use as an oil reservoir tank to the pump inlet. As you'll see the pump inlet is fairly large so make the pipe bore the same or ever so slightly bigger. Then a small pipe similar to the standard one that normally comes from the head to the charger oil inlet. Lastly a return pipe which is a couple of mm bigger bore than the small supply pipe running from the charger oil outlet to the top of the oil reservoir tank.
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oh and another thing, I'd highly recommend you put a pressure gauge on the oil outlet of the charger to a gauge on the dashboard. If you get a double banjo bolt then you can connect up both the oil return pipe and a pipe to a gauge. That way you can monitor the oil pressure so you know there is some oil in the charger. Since the pressure these pumps work at is something like 2-4psi this is much lower than normal engine oil pressures (which can be anywhere from 20psi to 100psi depending on oil temp etc..), a normal oil gauge will not work as this low pressure will barely register on it. I use a fuel pressure gauge which has a much lower scale on it.
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Thats real gd detailed gide, defiantly put it up as an FAQ.
A little project for the weekend! Cheers!!
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Seen this and had a thought............... :nerd:
(http://i1.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/f7/d1/f7e7_1.JPG)
Used to help cool brake fluid on motocross bikes, I was actually looking for the caliper mounted type for Le Man/GT cars etc, but stumbled across this..
it has a bleed point too ideal for an extra oil pressure sensor...
(http://i8.ebayimg.com/05/i/000/f7/d1/f7c7_1.JPG)