Club G40 Forum
Club G40 => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Nick_S on January 24, 2010, 05:15:48 pm
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I went to the CP rolling road day at Aldon yesterday and decided to put my mk2 1473cc on the rollers. It's not setup properly by a long shot, but after sorting out a slack brv linkage last week and feeling quite rampant on the way down, I decided to see what benchmark figure it could get for an improvment on.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/nicksiggy/RRplotJan10.jpg)
179bhp and ~170 lb/ft torque was a bit of a surprise. Apart from a full JPPP exhaust system and 'worked' engine, its only producing 8-9psi boost, on a SNS stage 5 off the shelf chip, standard throttle body and intercooler :o
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v207/Bondbill2k2/?action=view¤t=IMG_0071.flv (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v207/Bondbill2k2/?action=view¤t=IMG_0071.flv)
That was the first run on the rollers which i told them to keep well away from the limiter (charger not had a service for 5 years). It was still pulling top end, so they ran it again to over 7k rpm and it got over 180bhp, but they didn't save the plot (maybe because you only pay for one power run at Aldon?)
Well pleased ;D Just need to sort out a custom map now and refit my G40 gearbox avec Quaife diff.
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Nice one Nick, Really looking forward to seeing your new creation in the flesh ;)
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Awesome Nick. Should be a real beast when its set up properly... cant wait to see a power figure for that!
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179bhp eh?
so at the polo show when you came and said to me 'mine will produce more power than yours' was.......well a lie...........lol
not bad for a unmapped engine though to be fair, only 15bhp more needed now coolant boy!
Nice torque curve.
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a full JPPP exhaust system
JPPP?
Thought you got one of Yoof's exhausts?
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One in the same. Had to go on their ramp for a refit of 2" out of the rear section to fit on the mk2.
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not bad for a unmapped engine though to be fair, only 15bhp more needed now coolant boy!
May not even be that much ;)
http://www.clubpolo.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=180137&st=25&start=25 (http://www.clubpolo.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=180137&st=25&start=25)
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Really good power nick, A remap will make it even better.
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there must be so much potential for improvement there, put a bigger blower on it, boost up to 20psi, remap..must be WELL over 200bhp then.
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there must be so much potential for improvement there, put a bigger blower on it, boost up to 20psi, remap..must be WELL over 200bhp then.
lol from 8 boosts to 20 boosts! lol
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well exactly, lots more power to be found.
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One in the same. Had to go on their ramp for a refit of 2" out of the rear section to fit on the mk2.
Though as we own the jig, you have to get them through Polo-PP either way... ;)
Man up and stick a proper blower on there! Should be able to get 190-195bhp out of it with the G-lader and Aquamist - only limitation will be the G40-lader.
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One in the same. Had to go on their ramp for a refit of 2" out of the rear section to fit on the mk2.
Though as we own the jig, you have to get them through Polo-PP either way... ;)
Man up and stick a proper blower on there! Should be able to get 190-195bhp out of it with the G-lader and Aquamist - only limitation will be the G40-lader
When you say bigger blower are we talking g60 or somthing entirely different?
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If I had to stay supercharged I'd stick a G60-lader on there like Tony Lo's 1.5 8v.
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Cheers for all the comments.
A remap should see it get into the 190's and we'll see where we go from there ;)
Last i heard Tony Lo's mk2 was a 1.4 8v. A G60 would get it near 230 bhp with a few transmission casualties along the way :D
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Yeah, for transmission life you'd be better off with the more progressive delivery of a turbo - or just being gentle with the application of your right foot. Either way, more boost needed if you want to make big numbers! ;)
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My old psd eaton'd g40 was quoted by Steve pitt to be running 220bhp ATFW. It was savage and was fighting for traction whilst trying to put you into the nearest ditch :-)
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Did you have an LSD on that Ben?
Mine with the 8P on atm is pretty undriveable in 1,2,3 when you plant the right foot.
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Nope nick. Standard ATVbox. I remember2 days before buying it paul the previous owner destroyed the outer cv joint whilst giving it one last spirited drive.
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Very impressive nick. Personally I'd be happy with that. I mean how fast do you want it lol. It looks the tits, has good power. I'd get the handling sweet as and then your gonna have a nice useable car that's stupid quick but not insane. I know your a g lader man too so unless you wanna possibly go other routes I'd say what you gots great and your not pushing the engine to it's limits too if there's great potential as hayesey says and you stay well below that. Surely a well set up chassis and circa 180 bhp is gonna a right enjoyable toy? Just my thoughts... But then the abilty to say 'i've got X amount of power :-P' is always appealing.
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Tony's was overbored to 77mm and had a Sorg 1.4 stroker crank, sold as a '1.5' conversion, he also had Jenvy throttle bodies ready to go on, I've not emailed him for years though...
G60 blower is the only way to go for decent power, the G40 blower can't flow enough.
A promising base line anyway :)
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Like spaniel says unless you crave the 200 bhp figures then 180bhp in a car weighing 800ish kgs is spot on. You then just need to solve the age old handling of the polo and you have a weapon in your hands. My 1st g had just twin v's 65mm pulley and chip. That felt rapid!!! There must come a point when you start to sacrifice reliability for power. My eaton'd one started running rich and destroying spark plugs.
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Tidy result that Nick,
Fairly sure we're running an identical spec right? Even built by the same people I believe?
Would be nice to compare notes and try work out where you've found 10bhp+ on me, albeit torque roughly the same. Mine reads 7psi on the gauge but would suspect that's more gauge error than a genuine difference.
Yours will always have the edge anyway, mk2 1.5 is waaaay cool!
G60 for me too this year hopefully...
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Have to admit the mk2 Nick has completed really shocked me as it looks frikkin brilliant. ;)
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That torque curve is amazing, I bet you could set off in top gear.
Such a nice car too, really looks great, I can say for sure its the best polo I have ever seen.
What clutch do you have Nick?
I have a paddle friction plate that someone off here (cant remember who now lol) very kindly donated. And fantastic though it is, its terrible in traffic and setting off. Apparently its from CG motorsport at was made to take 200 lbs/ft, which I can confirm it does with ease now lol. Im just a bit sick of the juddering and crap.
I take it you have somthing a little more civilised?
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Fairly sure we're running an identical spec right?
So what spec are you running then fellas? Have either of you listed it on the forum? I like the thought of 180bhp!
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I take it you have somthing a little more civilised?
Helix do an organic-lined clutch. It's fine in Robin's 194bhp K03'd G40, and several others have used it - including Barney's old uber-spec 195hp G40. It stood up to the instant torque hit from Barney's car, should have an easier life with the more progressive boost of a turbo. When I drove Robin's car you'd not know it wasn't a stock clutch.
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Sounds good, I can get a standard friction plate organic lined for £20, then possibly just recess the pressure plate into the flywheel to get a bit more clamping force. I just wasnt sure if it would hold thats all. I figured that everyone must have these things that I have but I saw at the RR day that I was the only one jerking about the car park ;D
If I can be bothered I will do a bit of drag racing this year so it will have to take some stick. Im just cringing all the time for the poor gearbox now, if that thing grenades then the cars going to the scrappers :o ;D.
I think I need to have a switch on the steering wheel for a low boost setting to make it more tractable until you reach higher speeds.
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i've got a paddle in mine and yes it drives me mad in traffic but it great on track. don't use the car daily so it doesn't bother me.
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Tommo yours is a rigid paddle thats why its harsh. I had it made when i was running my eaton setup at around 175lbs/ft.
it was me that donated you it lol.
you can buy just the friction plate from helix and then make your own pressure plate up with stronger and more springs.
be alot cheaper that way.
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Yes it was you lance. Thanks again for that clutch though, without that I would have been buggered.
I think I will see how I get on at the dragstrip with the ridgid paddle before possibly investing in somthing more friendly.
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no problem tommo, how much is a metro turbo carb worth? might know someone with one.
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I dunno, depends on condition I suppose. You can convert a normal SU piece of piss so probs only £40 or so, at a guess.
The metro turbo plenum is worth money though becuase you need that for the turbo su to work.
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Sounds good, I can get a standard friction plate organic lined for £20, then possibly just recess the pressure plate into the flywheel to get a bit more clamping force. I just wasnt sure if it would hold thats all. I figured that everyone must have these things that I have but I saw at the RR day that I was the only one jerking about the car park ;D
Not the only one, the chap at Aldon stalled mine driving it into their hangar LOL.
I've got a CG 4 fin paddle clutch too, surprisingly easy to live with for me but I don't drive it daily. Mike at CG in Leeds said he can re-line the friction pads if you wear them out, so shouldn't cost the earth to maintain.
Varley, what cam you got in your engine? I did give my engine a bit of abuse too whilst running it in ;)
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Had my Helix plate re-lined - think it was something like £40, plus the postage to and from them. A paddle clutch is for life!
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True - when I used it daily I carried a spare around with me for a while. Came in handy one day on the way to the Pod! Some of the 'uprated' (i.e. re-worked stock part with more springs) cover plates seem very stiff compared to others.
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My car is using a standard pressure plate on the paddle clutch with no problems.
Infact its second hand, and only a standard polo one, not a 200mm one. But it covers the friction plate just.
No sign of slip at all, even if you are violent with it.
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Turbos are alot kinder on drivetrain components :-*
Tommo- how many miles have you put on your current set-up? Very impressed by the £/bhp - just wondering at what true price this comes?
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My car is using a standard pressure plate on the paddle clutch with no problems.
Yeah, I did for years with a Sachs paddle - just got a complete Helix setup for cheap. Still have the Sachs, it was fine despite muchos RWYB abuse.
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Turbos are alot kinder on drivetrain components :-*
Tommo- how many miles have you put on your current set-up? Very impressed by the £/bhp - just wondering at what true price this comes?
I put 6k miles on the 1.3 Spi at 1.2 bar. It was fine when I stripped it down for inspection, there wasnt one det mark in the pistons or the head. Exhaust valves looked fine etc. If it wasnt for the fact that I stripped a thread in the block when I fitted the wrong head bolts by accident, then I would probably still be using it now.
As for the 1.4 ive only done about 1k miles on it although pretty much all of those have been giving it absolute death setting it up. I dont really see why the life of it should be all that compromised. I made a mistake with the dizzy and inadvertantly ran 42 degrees max advance on the 1.4 engine, and whilst racing my mates scooby I got a good few seconds of machine gun style detonation (exact same type of det that broke the ring lands on my mates accralite pistoned mini). I crapped myself but it still runs fine, it had little bobbles of ally stuck to the plugs after but even the head gasket has been fine ever since. It would be interesting to get the head off to see what damage that actually caused.
I had reservations about running the 7mm valves that my ABD had but so far they have been fine, obviously if I was to spend money on a decent set of pistons I would go for the 8mm sodium filled ones because for the cost its not worth the risk, but such is the beauty of genuine scrap yard parts.
The only other reservation I had was the ring gaps. Having machined 2.4mm off the piston top I was concerned that the top rings may get a bit too hot and nip up. But I decided against opening the ring gap up in the interest of experementation. So far they have been totally fine but the rings are the original VW ones which have done over 100k miles, so will be a bit worn. Either way there is still 5.5mm from the top of the piston to the top of the top ring gap, which is the same as a 200sx. And as the combustion chamber is in the piston I should think this will keep ring temps down.
What max ignition advance do you run on full boost do you run yoof? Mine is set at 18 degrees but I suspect that I could get a fair bit more on there, I know that a lot of high power metro turbos run upto 24 degrees, but aparrently they have a very good combustion chamber. I didnt have time before the rolling road to try advancing it, plus im getting ever more consious that spending all night doing 130mph up and down the motorway between services is not going to do my liscence any favours at some point. I dont really want to run any more boost because the chances of me finding another turbo for £20 are slim so I want to make this one last.
I suppose the chinese £11 big end bearings that I fitted wont last as long as VW ones would, but again, all in the interest of science.
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Cheers Rae, some people think im a tight arse, but the minuite I spend any money on it I then have to start worrying if its going to self destruct, which is no fun for me.
I dont mind spending money on stuff that I can transfer onto other cars, such as my wideband setup.
Going back to the life of the thing, its good to remember that with turbos you arent constantly stressing the engine. A lot of people get stuck in the way of comparing them to high power N/A engines, where your silly compression ratio is pounding your components at all RPM's, full load or no load. With a turbo its just when your on boost (which isnt always all that often) and you just have to cater for the added heat.
My car is also running aroung 11.2:1 AFR on full boost/load. Its safer that way on a carburetted car, I could aim for 12.5 for more power but I cant be arsed fiddling around with jets. The R5 carb has been great, I literally havent adjusted anything on it (although I think it came off a high power R5T) I could do with another carb base though as the idle mixture screw has snapped off in the hole :o.
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ages ago a lad i know had a 1.4 nova with a boot he put a 1.6 head on it to lower comp to around 8.5:1 then fitted a 200sx turbo and a carb off a lancia. it made over 200bhp too an ran for ages.
11.2:1 afr eh. sounds good on fuel haha 20mpg?
do you run double valve springs?
what do you take the revs too?
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Its always gonna be pretty dire on fuel on boost, off boost its not really great either, although I always get over 25mpg average over a tank and im always caning the arse out of it.
Yeah I fitted double valve springs when I fitted the GT cam, mainly because I had them but it could prevent any reversion.
You dont really need to rev it though, peak power is at just below 5700rpm so its best to change up at around 6500.
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25mpg is not bad at all really.
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yeah i was surprised how low down the power band it peaks, I guess that's the longer stroke. my peak bhp is at about 6100rpm, it is very rev happy though.
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Yeah, it would be interesting to see if you could bore the ABD block so it was square. I think that would be a sweet motor.
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My old psd eaton'd g40 was quoted by Steve pitt to be running 220bhp ATFW. It was savage and was fighting for traction whilst trying to put you into the nearest ditch :-)
its all part of the fun ;D
Reckon you could get over 200 lbft of torque at less than 2k with not too much work. Will be a very very nice car to drive.
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giorgio did you ever sort out the running rich fuelling problem that was killing spark plugs??
regards
Ben :)
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so what is the complete spec of this engine then is it not a py block?
steven
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Damit I really need to get the 1w block out of the basement ;D
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drove the death trap last night, in the rain, utterly shitpantastic.
we had to drive to the motorway to even think about giving it full beans, and even then i held back, it is crazy quick, its hard to even imagine, cars passing you at 10 20mph more than you, they get next to you, you floor it, your up with them and beyond, it was like a computer game
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so what is the complete spec of this engine then is it not a py block?
steven
Chap who built my engine also had this G60 hybrid lump on his bench at the same time ;)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VW-CORRADO-G60-TWO-CARS-A-RARE-UNMISSABLE-PROJECT_W0QQitemZ130362041989QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAutomobiles_UK?hash=item1e5a2ee685 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VW-CORRADO-G60-TWO-CARS-A-RARE-UNMISSABLE-PROJECT_W0QQitemZ130362041989QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAutomobiles_UK?hash=item1e5a2ee685)
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drove the death trap last night, in the rain, utterly shitpantastic.
we had to drive to the motorway to even think about giving it full beans, and even then i held back, it is crazy quick, its hard to even imagine, cars passing you at 10 20mph more than you, they get next to you, you floor it, your up with them and beyond, it was like a computer game
It was good to get it out on a dry road this evening, much better. Me and ben on the motorway went for a bit of a blast. I got the speedo right round to the bottom till the needle was covering the 'MPH' bit but I bottled it. I reckon if you had the balls you could get it so far round it read 10mph.
I want to get a video camera on the speedo and just pay a tramp to max it out on the motorway.
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giorgio did you ever sort out the running rich fuelling problem that was killing spark plugs??
regards
Ben :)
I fitted Emerald and Steve the cock remapped it but it was still running quite rich. I tweaked the map myself but I an not too keen to go any further.
Then the eaton gave up on me so I have been spending time sorting that out. Just waiting for a bearing then it can go to Dave Walker for its remap.
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giorgio did you ever sort out the running rich fuelling problem that was killing spark plugs??
regards
Ben :)
I fitted Emerald and Steve the cock remapped it but it was still running quite rich. I tweaked the map myself but I an not too keen to go any further.
Can't believe the eaton let go. I though the psd conversion had the eaton aligned perfectly?
Then the eaton gave up on me so I have been spending time sorting that out. Just waiting for a bearing then it can go to Dave Walker for its remap.
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Your/My engine mount was not aligned perfectly. So even though the eaton was aligned to the bracket it was not perp to the crank.
Which is I/you/us/ were going through belts. Will get that bearing now actually.
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I'd find someone else to map it- last 2 G40 stories I've heard have had very bad experiences, one resulting in 2 melted engines, the other in a car which pinked it's arse off. All after a few hundred pounds worth of mapping- I've heard several people say his business is on the brink of liquidation, I don't know the truth behind this though. I'd steer clear and find someone local.
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shame you live so far away place near me is fantastic!
ask around locally bound to be someone that can map decent.
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couldn't yoof map her?? ;)
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I stick to the nuts & bolts... Andy is the mapping guru. :D
Although he's not finished his own Emerald mapping yet :)