Club G40 Forum

Technical => Engine and Transmission => Topic started by: matthg40 on September 13, 2017, 05:05:05 am

Title: Still have timing issue but may have a breakthrough
Post by: matthg40 on September 13, 2017, 05:05:05 am
Had a timing issue for a good few months now and it's been driving me up the wall.and I think I've now worked out what the problem is but not quite sure how to rectify it.ive noticed the rotary arm is sitting at the 4 o clock position when set to tdc rather than 10 o clock like it's supposed to be so im now unsure of how to like it back up so it's back in the right position.does anyone have any ideas ive tried everything possible and I'm running out of ideas so if anyone can help please feel free as I really want my g40 back on the road thanks as always matt
Title: Re: Still have timing issue but may have a breakthrough
Post by: GR40 on September 13, 2017, 04:42:19 pm
Don't put it in any other position. Try switching the wires around. There are 2 types of distributor depending on where the position sensor is! If that is your case you need to put number 1 spark plug wire in number 3, number 2 in 4... etc and it will probably work.
Title: Re: Still have timing issue but may have a breakthrough
Post by: ereeiz on September 14, 2017, 10:19:28 am
Rotate the engine to TDC, wherever your rotor arm is facing, that is cylinder 1. Next is 3 then 4 then 2
Title: Re: Still have timing issue but may have a breakthrough
Post by: matthg40 on September 14, 2017, 10:37:12 am
Thank guys will give it a try you may of saved the day
Title: Re: Still have timing issue but may have a breakthrough
Post by: matthg40 on September 16, 2017, 04:43:20 pm
Both timing marks are set perfectly and it sits at tdc now Its got a horrible misfire making it impossible to set the timing with a strobe Light the the mechanical timing mark this is really beginning to frustrate me now
Title: Re: Still have timing issue but may have a breakthrough
Post by: GR40 on September 17, 2017, 11:55:51 am
Did you put the order counter clockwise? The cam pulley rotates clockwise but the distributor does counter clockwise so if cylinder 1 is at 4 o'clock then cylinder 3 is at 1 o'clock then cylinder 4 is at 10 o'clock and cylinder 2 is at 7 o'clock. Check again if that is correct!
Title: Re: Still have timing issue but may have a breakthrough
Post by: matthg40 on September 17, 2017, 05:03:54 pm
Yes number 1 sits at about 8 o clock but was told it should be about 10 o clock
Title: Re: Still have timing issue but may have a breakthrough
Post by: GR40 on September 18, 2017, 08:47:57 am
I can't think of anything else! Can you upload pictures of your timing marks and the distributor? We might see something you are missing!
Title: Re: Still have timing issue but may have a breakthrough
Post by: matthg40 on September 18, 2017, 11:42:58 am
Heading out to work on the car this afternoon will put some pics up then
Title: Re: Still have timing issue but may have a breakthrough
Post by: matthg40 on September 18, 2017, 02:09:02 pm
Here are some pics
Title: Re: Still have timing issue but may have a breakthrough
Post by: matthg40 on September 18, 2017, 02:09:51 pm
Sorry there not great
Title: Re: Still have timing issue but may have a breakthrough
Post by: GR40 on September 18, 2017, 06:21:08 pm
From what I see, my assumption is correct! You have a rebuilt distributor with the newer type of sensor so your cylinder 1 is 180o off from where it was in an original bosch. Try bolting it to where, the sensor is under the distributor instead of over, then pick to where the rotor is facing and set that one as cylinder number one. See if that works! If it does, and you want the sensor at the top then turn it back around and switch the plugs 180 degrees, cause in this case the rotor is showing you cylinder 4 and not number 1 at tdc.

Correction: I don't think it will work in any position other than with the sensor under the distributor. You would have to put the rotor arm 180o off too and that is not possible unless you take the distributor apart.

PS. I assume your distributor is rebuilt and someone just didn't turn the back of it around to match the new sensor. I could be wrong!

PS2. I assume you were unplugging the blue sensor when trying to time it, right?
Title: Re: Still have timing issue but may have a breakthrough
Post by: matthg40 on September 18, 2017, 08:19:40 pm
So basically I need to put my sensor upside down is what your saying as it's 180 degrees out?its a eBay jobee he asked for my reg and sent what I have on the car now it's not a Bosch replacement sadly.and I've removed blue sensor when setting timing yes
Title: Re: Still have timing issue but may have a breakthrough
Post by: GR40 on September 18, 2017, 09:21:12 pm
It is a possibility that the guy who rebuilt this one forgot to also turn the rotation disk that attaches to the cam 180 degrees to match the new sensor position. So yes I believe that whoever rebuilt this one might has gotten it reassembled the wrong way. Its worth a try putting it upside down.
Title: Re: Still have timing issue but may have a breakthrough
Post by: matthg40 on September 18, 2017, 09:26:21 pm
Right so I'm putting the sensor at the top and which lead facing the rad 1 or 4 sorry for the questions I know my engine like the back of my hand but never done anything with the distributor or rotary arm as you can tell
Title: Re: Still have timing issue but may have a breakthrough
Post by: GR40 on September 18, 2017, 09:29:05 pm
You are putting the distributor with the sensor facing down. Then at top dead center the rotor arm should be at 8 o clock. Put cylinder number 1 to the nearest corresponding position to 8 o clock, then counter clockwise put in 3, 4 and 2.
Title: Re: Still have timing issue but may have a breakthrough
Post by: matthg40 on September 18, 2017, 10:41:50 pm
I had a fight you were going to say that I've tried that with the sensor upside down and the car backfired and popped a massive flame out the exhaust when I tried it.so i assumed I'd done something wrong.maybe the rotary arm was in the right palace but the leads were in the wrong order so I'll try again
Title: Re: Still have timing issue but may have a breakthrough
Post by: GR40 on September 19, 2017, 10:04:42 am
Well the good news are that the massive fireball means you have both spark and fuel. The bad news are that you are firing the fuel while the exhaust valves are open. So that makes me believe the distributor is put together the correct way from whoever rebuilt it. I would start over and go through the following steps:

1. Put the engine at top dead center and take the spark plugs out.
2. Stick something long in cylinder 1 (the one nearest to the cam gear and further away from the distributor).
3. Turn the engine clockwise with a socket wrench at the crank and make sure that when it comes back around to the marks the piston in cylinder 1 is at its highest (note that for every rotation of the cam, the crank rotates twice). This way you will be sure that the engine is timed correctly.
4. Don't put any sparkplugs in.
5. Put the distributor in with the sensor facing up, make sure that the engine is at tdc for cylinder 1, mark to where the rotor arm is facing, put the distributor cap back on and plug cylinder 1 wire to where it corresponds. No other wires need to be plugged and you need to unplug the blue sensor.
6. Put the spark plug on the wire and set it on the engine somewhere, where it gets grounded and you can see it when it sparks (cam cover may or may not do).
7. Turn the engine clockwise from the crank and keep an eye for when the sparkplug sparks. It should spark just a couple of degrees before the timing marks align (6 degrees if I am correct). If it does that means everything is set right .If it does a couple degrees off rotate the distributor a little. If it doesn't spark anywhere near it, mark where the cam gear is facing when that plugs gets spark and we ll have something to go on with.
Title: Re: Still have timing issue but may have a breakthrough
Post by: matthg40 on September 19, 2017, 01:13:35 pm
Thank you so much for your help I will let you know how I get on
Title: Re: Still have timing issue but may have a breakthrough
Post by: matthg40 on September 20, 2017, 04:09:31 pm
Right guy had a play today and the crank is rotating twice when I turn it manually so I know it's times up correctly.the car now turns over straight away with the turn of the key which it hasn't done since I've been having problems.it runs ok cuts out now and again but I guess it needs tweeking by tweeking I mean setting up with a timing light.the car still has a slight misfire I can hear it when I rev the car but I guess again it needs the timing tweeking.so I think today I have made a breakthrough
Title: Re: Still have timing issue but may have a breakthrough
Post by: GR40 on September 20, 2017, 06:11:25 pm
Timing it, will solve those things. If it stays running then you are 99% there.  Little hint I found about making these engines run smoothly in idle is to replace the gasket under the throttle, it makes all the difference in the world. If it's even slightly cracked it makes the idle randomly erratic and makes the car randomly die when you stop at traffic lights. So if any of those things appear keep in mind it may be that gasket.
Title: Re: Still have timing issue but may have a breakthrough
Post by: matthg40 on September 20, 2017, 08:17:02 pm
Ah that's funny you say that I brought my throttle body from someone on this forum and it didn't have a gasket it's been done with gasket sealer.so I rang vw,parkers,gsf and Euro car parts and the all told me all gaskets for the throttle body are no obsolete so I had to do in with gasket sealer to sadly
Title: Re: Still have timing issue but may have a breakthrough
Post by: GR40 on September 21, 2017, 08:02:27 pm
You can cut one out yourself out of a permanite gasket sheet. All you need is a paper sheet to make the manifold's template and then transfer that to the permanite sheet with a razor. I think the sheet itself is like 4€. As of where you are going to find one of those sheets I can't really help you as I live in Greece and here there is a shop that will cut any shape and gasket material you need. That is where I made mine. I think DONIT is the company that makes those type of gasket sheets if that helps. I have tried gasket sealer under the throttle and the throttle bolts rattled themselves loose after 2 months.
Title: Re: Still have timing issue but may have a breakthrough
Post by: matthg40 on September 21, 2017, 08:15:37 pm
I will order a sfewnsheets then thank you again 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Title: Re: Still have timing issue but may have a breakthrough
Post by: matthg40 on September 22, 2017, 02:46:36 pm
New update I managed to get the car running ok and to start first time with the turn of the key.but it now cuts out and when I try to restart it there's a clicking noise coming from the distrubitor.i know it's not the starter motor as I replaced it earlier this year.so does anybody have any idea what this noise is or where it's coming from
Title: Re: Still have timing issue but may have a breakthrough
Post by: GR40 on September 22, 2017, 03:15:16 pm
Does the clicking come from the distributor, or is it the injectors?
Title: Re: Still have timing issue but may have a breakthrough
Post by: matthg40 on September 22, 2017, 03:38:51 pm
From the car it's stopping the engine turn over
Title: Re: Still have timing issue but may have a breakthrough
Post by: matthg40 on September 22, 2017, 04:08:31 pm
This car is driving me up the wall and the sad thing is I know it will be something daft that's causing the misfire and stopping it from running properly
Title: Re: Still have timing issue but may have a breakthrough
Post by: randombadger69 on September 25, 2017, 10:48:59 pm
If you need a throttle body gasket; let me know. I had a batch cut and still have some left.
Title: Re: Still have timing issue but may have a breakthrough
Post by: matthg40 on September 27, 2017, 04:10:46 am
I’ll have 2 If you still have them please need one and I’ll have a spare if that’s ok please if you pm your details I’ll send some money over
Title: Re: Still have timing issue but may have a breakthrough
Post by: GR40 on September 27, 2017, 04:15:47 pm
Just an idea! Since u replaced the starter motor, check that the wiring isn't shorting out behind the block. I had that happen to me once where the wires came lose and melted the insulation by touching the hot engine block and it would ground itself and shortcircuit the engine to a stop. It started cutting out while moving at first, till it would stop and then it would not start again. Be very careful with wires near the started as the amps there are high enough to harm you. Disconnect the battery and check the wiring that runs behind the engine and under the inlet manifold to the starter!
Title: Re: Still have timing issue but may have a breakthrough
Post by: matthg40 on September 28, 2017, 03:09:10 pm
IVE checked my earths for resistance and they all measure 0 so I’m chuffed about that as that was bothering me.ive checked all sensors and still when I unplug the blue temp sender nothing happeneds like its supposed to so that does worry me massively so that’s stopping set the ignition timing.also I’m getting no reading apart from the odd flicker from the co2 pot so I have no idea what’s going on with this dam car but it’s driving me up the wall
Title: Re: Still have timing issue but may have a breakthrough
Post by: randombadger69 on October 02, 2017, 09:08:49 pm
Do you use standard t/b or 51mm?
Title: Re: Still have timing issue but may have a breakthrough
Post by: matthg40 on December 14, 2017, 01:49:56 pm
Standard throttle body it’s just been gas flowed and de wedged
Title: Re: Still have timing issue but may have a breakthrough
Post by: GR40 on December 20, 2017, 12:13:34 pm
Ok here is something that might help you! I switched over to my rebuilt distributor that has the newer sensor on it! I putted the sensor facing down (under the distributor) and then puted 1 to the nearest corresponding position to 10-11 o clock, then counter clockwise 3, 4 and 2 and that made it run.
Title: Re: Still have timing issue but may have a breakthrough
Post by: matthg40 on December 31, 2017, 01:45:37 pm
THank you for that I will give that a try now