Club G40 Forum
Technical => Electrical => Topic started by: langersG40 on February 15, 2014, 02:01:31 pm
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started my G40 up the other day to put it back on the road and take it for an MOT, 2 miles down the road, it cut out and wouldn't restart,
its got fuel in it,
pumps priming
when you turn the ignition, getting a spark!!! taken the dizzy off and cleaned it took both relays out cleaned them in electrical cleaner, put both on 12v feeds and they both click!!!
its also got a new battery,
any help id be most grateful
many thanks
Langers
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i'd probably work backwards from the engine side... spill less fuel that way... !
1) check you get a spark per rotation of the engine (i.e. distributor is working, so is ECU, so is coil) and not just 1 spark and thats it when you start cranking - it should spark spark spark spark spark as engine turns over
2) check 12v getting to both fuel pumps as you prime it / crank it over to start
3) take both fuel lines off the injector rail,if nothing comes out... (if something comes out - i think i'm right in saying make sure you put the return pipe onto the fuel pressure regulator and the supply pipe onto the plastic injector rail... and then try to start the car again !)
4) take fuel line off before fuel filter,if nothing comes out...
5) take fuel line off before the inline fuel pump...if nothing comes out...
6) ... it's probably the in-tank lift pump.
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Thanks for reply
right
1)constant spark per rotation when the engines cranked over
2)]external pump primes and pumps fuel, I have given it a direct 12v feed off a battery and it works both ways!!!
3) there is a direct 12v feed to the internal tank pump both when priming and cranking it!!! and also the external pump has a 12v feed
4)also I gave the internal pump a direct feed off the battery and you can here it working in the tank
HELP this is getting me down what can this be as I have spark, and both pump work and have feed!!
regards
Langers
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Jammed up fuel filter from old petrol / storage (long shot though)
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and the plugs are wet some fuel must be getting in, but nothing, not one fire arghhh ::)
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Have you had the leads off? Are they in the correct order?
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yeah i have but ive put em back in i think the correct order 1342 in a anti clock wise direction with 1 being the closest to you on the dizzy?
right now ive changed the HT leads as i read some where about a guy that saying his did the same thing, still nothing
but have noticed plugs are wet when i took em out and i have pressure at the fuel rail
help!!!
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There were two Bentley engineers (and me) putting the leads back on Robins car with my car for refrerence and it still took us about three attempts to get them right!
I cant remember the order off the top of my head but its in the Haynes.
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It could be yr hall sender been replaced and the drive been put on 180 degrees out.... if so try 1342 from 3 o clock anti clockwise
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ah shit now you said that I put it on TDC and took the dizzy off and it was in the 3 O clock position not 9 O clock is that what you mean???
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could it be Blue ECU Sensor or hall sender as I just cut out whilst driving and was fine up til then!!!
its got fuel, fuel pressure relays and pumps work, they have a 12v feed, I have a spark arghhhhh bloody cars lol
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ah shit now you said that I put it on TDC and took the dizzy off and it was in the 3 O clock position not 9 O clock is that what you mean???
Yes. I think lobe on back of dizzy might be 180degree out. Try 1342 from 3 oclock
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Should run without the blue temp sensor plugged in. Try it with it disconnected. Won't run if the hall sender is unplugged. Sounds like it could be the hall sender.
Mark accross your dizzy and the camshaft journal for reference then unbolt and remove the dizzy.
Turn your engine to tdc on cylinder 1. Now pop the cap off your dizzy and check where the rotor arm is in relation to the cap with the dizzy rotor engaged in the end if the camshaft.
Once you have established which position cyl.1 lead should be on your dizzy cap; working from your rotor arm with the crank at tdc on cyl.1. Then the firing order in an anti clockwise direction when looking at the dizzy square-on is 1342.
Once you have all the leads correct try turning the rotor arm with the ignition on and a test plug in each lead, probably best to do this one at a time so as not to get in a muddle! ;D
I just changed the dizzy on my G40 and it has cured the cold morning misfire. Plus feels a lot happier through the rev range now.
I'm hoping the lambda sensor and hall sender was the reason I was getting fuel in my oil on my long term 1306cc build; as I used the dizzy off this on my other one and it had the cold start misfire issue on both.
For £70 it's worth doing the sender IMHO if you are unsure on history. Or if your feeling flush £119 for the whole dizzy on ebay from ECP.
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thanks guys
right I tested the Hall Sender today by, removing the distributor completely but leaving it plugged in turned the ignition on, and manually by hand turned it, and on each turn you could hear the pump work, and injectors open. so id say the hall sender is working.
I got cyl 1 on TDC and timing marks all lined up ok, the cam for the dizzy dowel to go in was pointing at the 3 O clock position!!! so I put the dizzy back on and put the leads on one by one in anti clock wise 1-3-4-2!!!
and still nothing ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
so hall sender is working
Both pumps & relays are working
I have fuel
I have a spark
timing marks all lined up
ARGHHHHHHHHH LOL
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Right the dizzy dowel was in that place.
But when u refitted the dizzy, where did the rotor arm point?
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What Pete said. I didn't explain it very clearly last night.
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Right the dizzy dowel was in that place.
But when u refitted the dizzy, where did the rotor arm point?
The rotor arm was pointing toward the front off the car at the 9 0 clock position, so I put HT lead 1 at that point then did 342 anti clock wise still nothing :( this is really bugging me now
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if the dizzy has been off - maybe tweek it back/forward and try?
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Cheers Pete yeah done that I've checked all the earths I could see I.e gearbox, bonnet etcpulled all the connections off and spray electrical connection cleaner on them all including ecu main connection and still nothing I'm completely puzzled now any advise on this as I'm stumped I have fuel to the rail here the pumps operating the hall sender works I have a spark this car should run, could it be ecu related?? Is it worth sticking the standard chip back in ?? Is there any thing I've missed??
It's just so strange that it was running ok I used a jump pack to fire it up but 2 miles down the road it just cuts out without no warning, no misfiring, no hesitation if was running fine!!!
Thanks for you help guys it's much appreciated
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When you say you're getting a spark, where are you checking it? From a plug lead or coil lead? If you're just checking at the coil, the carbon brush or tensioning spring in the dizzy cap could be fubar. Long shot but hopefully...
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sticking a plug in the HT lead putting it to earth :/ thanks tho mate
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You say you've checked the cam timing?
Have you tried swinging the dizzy whilst cranking with the bolts out of the ears on the dizzy housing.
The first time I set the cam timing on a g40 it was out by a tooth on the cambelt. A friend swung the dizzy with the bolts out whilst I cranked it over, it fired up with the dizzy way out on adjustment, to the point the bolts wouldn't fit. So if it's jumped a tooth it'll still turn over but the spark could be way out.
Just thinking if it jumped a tooth this could be the scenario.
Long shot I know.
Have you checked ignition timing with a strobe light?
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mate im up for giving anything ago will try that tomorrow, but the only thing id say is it was running stop on before I think its more electrical then mechanical failure thanks for all the info and advise fella it really is much appricated
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You getting air in? nothing blocking any intake pipes (very long shot though)
throttle connected properly?
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Thanks joe yep all fine in the area. Does anybody know which timing marks are correct I have it on the z not on the zero!!!!! It's always run on it ever since I rebuilt it should it be on the zero and that what auto data says ???
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Do you have compression in the cylinders? If put in gear and pushed or spun with a wrench from the crank does the engine give you a fair amount of resistance?
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compression tested?
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Should be on 0 for cam timing mark. In reality though it is slightly off this. Z is 5 degrees BTDC for setting ignition timing in service mode. Afaik.
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right took the ecu home last night and pulled the SNS chip out, put the standard one back in!!! plugged the ecu in turn the ignition on and all sorts of relays and switches were clicking :( and I think injectors were firing too :( is the ecu shafted??
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Check your relays too!
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is the chip in the right way? there's two ways to fit it and only one is right!
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right I thinking Im finally getting there lol I found today when I disconnected the injectors it would fire up til it ran out of fuel in the combustion chamber :/ any ideas? Im guess its ECU related??
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How much power does the jump pack thing put out when it jumps a car?
I think I fried an ECU + Chip with one of them on my G40, but mine gave up seconds after it started.
I can't say for sure that's what happened to me as I went and pulled the engine out and replaced pretty much everything and nothing would make the car run till I bought a new ECU and chip.
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hopefully this isn't a stab in the dark.
sounds like all the electrics are working fine - you have spark at each 1/4 rotation. you have fuel. ECU is doing it's job and firing spark / injectors.
if HT leads - 2 were wrong way round i.e. 1342 / 1243 i've seen them attempt to start and backfire every other rotation.
right I thinking Im finally getting there lol I found today when I disconnected the injectors it would fire up til it ran out of fuel in the combustion chamber :/ any ideas? Im guess its ECU related??
this is what i'd be doing:
screw idle screw all way back in, unscrew one full turn. check throttle idle switch is working / accelerator cable isn't too tight so opening throttle. (don't touch throttle whilst attempting to start)
check the blue temp sensor resistance. check the wiring between blue sensor and the ECU pins - sounds like something broken with this to me. (flooding engine with fuel on cranking as it thinks its -40c or something) - or have you got the black & blue sensors connected the right way round?
is cam timing 100% spot on ? to the 0 on crank pulley i mean?
* get timing gun out (set at 0deg advance / no advance)
* get someone to crank over whilst pointing at the crank pulley (and check the cam pulley too), should be sparking somewhere near the 0/Z mark.
* stop cranking.
* losen distributor bolts slightly
* adjust
* start cranking again
* adjust again until it's sparking around 0 mark - i'd imagine it's almost running now / or the sound changes like it's starting to attempt at running.
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