Club G40 Forum
Technical => Superchargers / G-Lader => Topic started by: Jezza-7 on January 05, 2014, 01:36:40 pm
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On top of the oil tank, is it open to atmosphere or blanked/closed off?
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Mine's open to atmosphere, but just a very small diameter breather pipe. End of the pipe sits about 50mm above the oil level.
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Great, mine came with some silicone hose attached to the top and a bolt in it. I thought it was supposed to be open to atmosphere but wanted to check.
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I had a motorbike oil tank for mine, it had a breathable cap on it.
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Sweet, will get a small pipe coming off it to allow it to breathe.
Cheers guys!
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What oil did you go for in jezza? You using the facet fuel pump?
Is thicker oil better for the charger bearings? Your just using thin oil because of the pump?
If I bought an electric oil pump would it be recommended to use normal engine oil?
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If I bought an electric oil pump would it be recommended to use normal engine oil?
yes I would. But electric oil pumps are expensive, that's why most people use those facet fuel pumps + very thin oil. I used to use compressor oil in mine.
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Cheers Paul
Yeah I did have a look a while back, and they are £400 plus, but if I'm going to be putting a g60 lader on there I want it to cope with the high revving g40 engine, reckon it will be a worth while investment :)
Thanks
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you should be able to find them cheaper than that. I seem to recall when people were looking into it years ago they were about £100-£150. PPP might be able to source something.
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Wow! That's cheap! Remember where that was from? £400 was like the best one I could find, worried a bit about it cutting out or breaking down as I'm driving so wanted to get the best I could
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Mocal oil pumps are about £170, not too bad but i had one, it was soo loud and could be heard over the engine on idle. Plus i read that you can only use the pump once the oil is up to temp, not good for a standalone system. I could be wrong but that would explain why i had problems with it.
Im using a 7 psi pump and silkolene motor cross fork oil. Expensive but been running it for a good month now and its working well. Good flow and temps dont get too hot.
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-852-silkolene-05-synthetic-racing-fork-suspension-fluid.aspx
I used some compressor oil to start with and it was terrible. Was far too thick.
I then used air tool oil, as it was thin but it was getting very bubbly in the tank so i then switched to the fork oil. I got it for about £20 and its just the right amount luckily.
I looked into spur gear pumps, rather than the (mocal) diaphragm pump but couldn't really find anything fairly cheap.
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Yeah this is what is says about this mocal pump:
https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/mocal-electric-oil-pump-tcp1
Please note, this pump is not equipped with a bypass so damage may result from pumping against a blockage, for this reason,oil must be allowed to reach operating temperature of at least 70°C before the pump can be switched on.
This one would be better but more dollar
https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/mocal-electric-oil-pump-eop1-eop1
Or this one would seem a cheaper better option
https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/vdo-electric-oil-pump-405040001001
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if it was noisey, how did you mount it? Did you use rubber mounts like the fuel pump?
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That second one on the list looks pretty good! Not too fussed about the price, but that's far less than what I was expecting to spend
You reckon some fully synthetic oil for charger bearings? Or just normal stuff? Could you not use the stuff Eaton chargers use? As in the sealed for life stuff..... That you can replace
Must make one hell of a difference to charger temps, cool clean oil being pumped round the bearings
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There's a couple on ebay £85 new from America can't send the link as I'm on my phone, but they are turbo oil scavenge pumps. Think that would be up to the job?
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I looked at them scavenge pumps and read that it wouldnt be good for he use of a standalone, cant remember what it was but if i see it again i will let you know.
I only went for fully syn oil as the fella from opie oils had said they tested this oil for other superchargers and thats good enough for me. I have known some people to run their g40 on full syn.
Charger doesnt get as hot as it used to as well.
Paul i had it mounted on rubber floor matting, about 10mm think wrapped around my subframe. Was soo noisy.
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Was it this one?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Electric-Scavenge-Gear-Pump-12-volt-Turbo-Oil-Evacuation-New-12v-BEST-DEAL-/150710724796?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item23170f28bc
If so 2.5 gallons per minute is far too much pumping rate. My oil tank is only 1 litre so i would need a bigger tank.
This is a good read and where i found the scavenge pump thing i mentioned about. The pump is the same as in the ebay link except there is a normal and super version. Super being a higher psi.
"If used for pressure feed,both pumps will pump up to 40 psi or greater but the Super pump is rated at 40 psi constant whereas the Standard pump is rated at 25 psi constant. Trying to runs higher pressures will overload the pumps and burn up the motors. It's a question of the torque required. Keep in mind that turbos do not need 3 gallons per minute feed, so to prevent overworking the pump motor the oil must be by-passed back to the feed side of the pump or to the oil reservoir. Typically this is done in a "Tee" fitting after the pump discharge with an AN4 feed to the turbo and an AN6 bypass line with an orifice restrictor to the oil reservoir. All pumps must be fused @ 10 Amps"
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/oilsystems.htm
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That's a good read! It says those exact pumps can be used for remote oil systems on turbos, the ratings are max ratings, if you made your own return system after its passed through the charger it will just return to the catch tank, shouldn't really matter on size as it will just keep pumping it round and round? Correct if me if I'm wrong or missed something :S
The psi should be quite high anyway, I mean the oil pressure readings you get at the top of your head at redline are pretty high! So really the pump needs to be the same? For when at high rpm, I would have thought
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depends how long your lines to and from the charger would be. It might suck it soo quick that the tank could become nearly empty.
Doesnt have to be high. My engine pressure rarely goes above 60 psi when up to temp. Also i would like to know what pressure the charger actually receives from the engine as some people mentioned about putting restrictors in the lines, technically it already has them = the banjo bolt and the really small hole in the banjo union. I compared my thought to be original banjo to a genuine vw banjo i bought and the internal bore size is different as well.
Someone on here said they saw a psi drop as revs increased, around 5k or something then the psi went back up. Will try dig that up. If that pump produces 25psi that would be more than fine for it. Pumps produce flow not pressure so really if the psi is dropping, to me that means that the oil is flowing better through it getting cleaner cooler oil through the hot bearings and taking the heat away.
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Found it
I'm using Joe Gibbs XP0 oil, a Facet cube pump ( good for all of 7psi) and an alloy catch tank.
Oil temp. sits at about 50 degrees. Pressure is interesting as it sits at 5 psi on idle, drops to 3psi as the revs increase, which looks as if the charger bearings start to suck in the oil, then rises to 7psi above 6k. Looking at a Walbro fuel pump at £85 giving 15psi.
What Pim said about particles in the oil is true. When I first ran my standalone, it flushed a very small amount of micron dimension ferrous material from the charger which attached itself to the magnetic plug in the catch tank
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Ahh ok cheers dude :) I would have bought that otherwise, I'll stick to that mocal one then :)
Could they possibly have a restriction in the charger feed to prevent majority of the oil going straight through the charger, if it was just a huge hole the head would get less oil? Or am I thinking about this wrong? Heads on g40's don't seem to get a great deal of oil anyway
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Not too sure what you mean about restriction?
I still wouldn't buy a mocal one, they are too expensive. The 1st mocal one you wont be able to use due to the oil needing to reach 70 c.
2nd one is very expensive but the one from america would be great it its output was less. I would look at maybe something like Spur gear pumps. There really good and are positive displacement too. Get used on our aircraft as well and they rarely get broke.
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This would be better if the output was less but could always add a tee piece to bleed pressure off and its in the UK
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12v-Diesel-Oil-Water-Transfer-Pump-Gear-Drive-/331047534261?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item4d13f87eb5
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Thanks James :) sorry for short replies, been soo dam busy! Haven't even had a chance to start the polo lol
Should see it at the moment, is multi coloured, on axle stands in the street :( bad times
That price is a good price too! Have you got a separate oil pressure gauge for your standalone system incase the pump fails? It would be good to hook it up to a buzzer so if it fails the alarm goes off and you know straight away to turn her off
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Jezza, have you got part numbers or a link to the pump you're using?
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This is the same as the one im using:
https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/facet-solid-state-electric-fuel-pump-5-0-7-0-psi-fac-ss
Price varies a lot with these.
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Not got nothing on it mate.
I have had one fail before, did about 50 miles of driving knowing it wasn't working with no problems either. Scary really.
I have got a double banjo bolt ready got the outlet of the charger, just saving up for a mechanical low pressure fuel gauge so i can see what pressure its at.
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Cool, I was looking at similar but unsure what to pick up.
Found these though too - http://www.advancedautomotives.com/mini-cooper-1098-1275-facet-posi-flow-fuel-petrol-pump-unit-fast-road-track-2292-p.asp
Plastic body, thinking it might be better for engine bay use as it won't rust/age so easy.
That's rated at 7-10psi
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I used pretty much the same one jezza did.
It stopping working was always a slight worry, mine never did but still. I had a mechanical pressure gauge (much faster acting than electric ones). I did always think it'd be a good idea to fit a pressure switch to the charger outlet and wire it up to a buzzer if the pressure ever went to zero. I never got round to doing that before I put a turbo on instead though!
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Yeah, I think a pressure gauge would be necessary if I can turn it in to something to make available to customers.
Would hate for a pump to pack up and driver not know, bit different if you've built a kit yourself.
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Yeah a pressure gauge is a must.
Im about to buy something like this
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400537229506?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
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yep that's pretty much exactly what I had. You have to run an oil line into the back of the dash, I had a stainless braided pipe so it wouldn't rub through on the bulkhead or anything.
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That would be rather messy if it rubbed through inside!
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indeed. another argument for using a pressure switch and a buzzer instead.
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How fast should the oil be coming out when disconnected?
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depends what oil you use.
normally at a slowish pace as its only around 5-7psi. I would say from the oil i use, its a constant stream but when it gets hotter it does run a little better.
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Okay thank you my pump was broken got new one now see what happens thanks again