Just wondering if any1 had ever tried this or thought about it?
Keep the g40 charger and add a turbo aswell??
Obersly gearboxes will be a problem if you start making 250-300hp but with the turbo not kicking in till higher revs having given it half a chance 2 get some grip maybe it wont be that much more of a problem on the box??
I know of a yb that was twin charged a few years ago and they used a clutch on the charger that disconected it at 4000rpm, this being the revs the turbo was making good boost thus letting the engine rev to 8,5-9k and not having to worry about the charger blowing itself to pices??
Just a few idears that has poped into my head since ive had a weekend in bed ill! lol
Just intrested 2 hear what ppl think??
Mapping & Packaging are the main issues, I'd love to have the time and cash to do it though...
But is it worth it..................... funny u say that as i had phill j or the phone 10 mins after posting that saying the same thing!
And the answer is proberly not.......... however im one of these ppl who likes the building, testing out new things rather than atchley driving the car!
So it would be more about just seeing how it would work, lets face it if u wanted loads more power easyly you whould just strap a bigger turbo 2 a 1341??
space i dont think would be so much of a problem as id just do what most the rst boys do and mount the turbo over the gearbox?
Yoof how differcult do u think it would be to map? problem i guess would be when the turbo kicks in and u have a massive boost spike 2 deal with!
Next question what turbo would u use?? say the target was 350-400hp?? IhI???
Quote from: bbspolo on February 08, 2010, 12:34:45 AM
Next question what turbo would u use?? say the target was 350-400hp?? IhI???
I dont know intense amounts about these engines. But I do believe the most in the UK was around 230bhp?
would probs need a massive turbo, which would be laggy as hell
and a 1473cc 1w block. head restrictions would be huge at this point though.
if you have money to blow, it will make some interesting build threads!
If your gonna aim, aim high! lol
no this is all just talk no 1 is gonna do it! just the theory is intresting!
like u say id use a 1500cc bottom end, standard rods and crank (see how strong they rearly are?)
comp ratio .......... id say as low as high 7's??? does anyone make pistons as low as this??
Big valve head, cams etc
custom inlet manifold (some thing like this http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_fip_WjxItcI/STjyGWxP3OI/AAAAAAAAAaE/AEbVUTRDhSg/s400/DSC00051.jpg
Or even a 20v one?? They seem to flow very well even up 2 500hp?
This is ofcourse pretending a g40 gearbox could cope with 200hp let alone 350! lol
You could spool a massive turbo if you had the supercharger, because the engine will be pumping loads of hot gas at low RPM.
If you wanted better cylinder head design you would be better looking at nissan micra or similar I would say, see what has a similar bore spacing.
You could run it through a carb and that would save any mapping ball aches.
Im sure there is a renault 5 turbo with 340bhp, and they arent even OHC. There must be people in germany knocking on for similar power on these engines surely?
Most I have heard of is 240 out of a 1341 G, although I am sure a 1.5 will beat that.
Packaging in not that much of an issue. I think I could quite easily fit a turbo in my engine bay if I tried hard enough.
Probably easier to twin turbo than compound charge. Hmmm quad charged G...
The mapping problem is the transition period- not so much the huge boost spike (as you coukld use an N75 valve to control wastegate duty) just point once the turbo is on song, and the relative ignition/fuel values.
I know AWT did a twin charged car, and from the videos it didn't look (or sound) massively smooth, but I've never driven it or been in it...
Merc using the M45 have electro-magnetic clutches on them to cut the charger at idle due to noise and emissions regulations, I suspect it would be possible to rig this up.
Quote from: Yoof on February 08, 2010, 04:53:21 PM
I know AWT did a twin charged car, and from the videos it didn't look (or sound) massively smooth, but I've never driven it or been in it...
This one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXnmGtdKgQk ;D
That's the badger! Sounds insane 8)
Quote from: Yoof on February 08, 2010, 04:53:21 PM
The mapping problem is the transition period- not so much the huge boost spike (as you coukld use an N75 valve to control wastegate duty) just point once the turbo is on song, and the relative ignition/fuel values.
You would have to have the turbo capable of equaling the SC before the SC efficiency starts to drop off.
Then through the use of you elctro-cutch ma-jig you can dump the SC (uses about 18hp at full wack apparently) and then using the N75 valve to regulate the transition.
Although I am assuming the clutch is not progressive so you the whole plan kind of falls down when you need to go back to the SC. Saying that you could leave the SC disengaged until its safe to bring it back into play but then whats the point of having it.
PS - that video sounds crazy. reminds me of this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-grRKVsOlU
Million internet points to the first person who gets their car sounding like this
Twin turbo makes much more sense.
Depends whether you're using the units in series or in parallel too. Series would be easier.
Either way, controlling and calibrating for transient events will be a pain in the arse to get perfect - certainly with Digifant! However, for the likes of us who're used to less than OEM levels of refinement, it'd probably be quite achievable to get something that worked.
One of my colleagues is building a compound-charged Golf at the moment. Be interesting to see how that turns out.
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w160/Bigrigger78/0008.jpg)
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w160/Bigrigger78/fat_stage5_2.jpg)
Magnetic clutch
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w160/Bigrigger78/Picture004-5.jpg)
Somebody remind me why we own euro-shitboxes? I used to see the point but I have forgotten
Why use twin turbo? Seems like a massive ball ache.
I would just get the thing to rev and then have a fairly big turbo on it. Fit a 16v cylinder head and get a bit of boost, should see you at 300bhp no bother I would have thought. Its been a while since I looked but IIRC there are plenty of people over 300bhp with A series minis with 16v heads on and turbos, but they are limited more by their bore size and stroke.
Somthing about the VW scene just seems to lack the performance developments that you see in a lot of other scenes, possibly because its a younger spread of people, or its more about cosmetics. Maybe its because VW didnt really make any cult performance cars like cossies, R5 turbo's etc. I suppose its too easy to upgrade to a 20v turbo.
mate of mine twin charged a rover k series engine witha charger off a new twin charged vw engine and a massive turbo, ill take a couple of pics next time i am thru that way.
Quote from: Tommo on February 08, 2010, 10:20:20 PM
Somthing about the VW scene just seems to lack the performance developments that you see in a lot of other scenes
You got 5k to spunk on an engine.
Option 1) 1.3 8v Polo where 300bhp will be a dam miracle
Option 2) 2.something RWD Jap Beast where 5k will get you about 500 easy bhp.
yea i know alot of vauxhall boys and they have it rather easy. my mate built a nova turbo with just shy of 400bhp for next to nothing!
another lad come 3rd with his corsa turbo at totb.
The RedTop though is a great engine. VW 16v engine seems to be designed arse about face.
Quote from: giorgio on February 08, 2010, 10:27:36 PM
Quote from: Tommo on February 08, 2010, 10:20:20 PM
Somthing about the VW scene just seems to lack the performance developments that you see in a lot of other scenes
You got 5k to spunk on an engine.
Option 1) 1.3 8v Polo where 300bhp will be a dam miracle
Option 2) 2.something RWD Jap Beast where 5k will get you about 500 easy bhp.
I suppose you have hit the nail on the head there perhaps, there just isnt the love for these cars. With a lot of cult cars there are loads of people who wouldnt drive anything else, and they are determined to make their cars the best they can possibly be.
Quote from: giorgio on February 08, 2010, 10:12:19 PM
Somebody remind me why we own euro-shitboxes? I used to see the point but I have forgotten
Ha Ha! But quite true!
Quote from: giorgio on February 08, 2010, 10:27:36 PM
Option 1) 1.3 8v Polo where 300bhp will be a dam miracle
Option 2) 2.something RWD Jap Beast where 5k will get you about 500 easy bhp.
Just a few months ago I was on the verge of buying said Jap beast and leave the Polo parked for even longer, but reverted back to option 1 and will now probably spend a fair percentage of that 5k on it, and this in addition to the £k's spent first time around. I just hope that I don't regret it when my mate puts a Skyline engine in his 200SX, it's fast as it is with a little over 300bhp from the mildly tuned std engine.
I know its not a proper g40 lump ,but why not try and drop a 170bhp tsi engine in one and get it remapped??? hey presto twin charged polo. lol easier said than done but possible ;)
Alot of it boils down to cash- you can do a redtop Nova/Corsa for a pack of fags and 5p, but you still look like Barry.
I prefer the whole package- which is expensive to do, but Polo PP are trying to push the boundaries of the cars more and more, 2008 saw a 13.1 at Santa Pod, 2009 saw a 12.5, who knows what 2010 will bring?
I think the G40 is a great little cult car- personally I don't like Jap Crap, £/bhp it's cheap. But there's something that makes me laugh about the polo ;D probably a nitrous leak... ;)
Jules- TSi motors are closer to a G40 than you might think ;) Really Really nice engine, lovely and smooth too. Most OEM will go to this concept (small capacity, forced induction) with as many cogs as they can fit in the box.
QuoteSomthing about the VW scene just seems to lack the performance developments that you see in a lot of other scenes
I just don't think that is true. There's plenty of people doing all that with golfs, passats, corrados etc... it's just the polo scene which is lacking because its too easy to just buy a golf and stick a 20v in it when compared to building a big power polo.
Somebody put a tsi in a Mk1 Caddy so it may fit into a polo.
Side note - Andy I know your Warwick Way - http://nearyou.imeche.org.uk/events/event.htm?eID=3712.
mk1 caddy engine bay is a fair bit bigger than a polo one though but since the tsi engine is a development of the 1.4 16v AFH it shouldn't be impossible. just fitting all the ancillaries and pipework will be the hard work. plus the wiring. I'm sure it'll get done at some point though if it hasn't already in europe.
mate built a twin charged rover 1.6 engine using the charger from a tsi engine and a massive ebay turbo. pics taken the other day no belt on the charger cos he stopped running it. plus engine went bang but lasted a long time for standard internals just pistons shaved down a little.
(http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn210/lance_m45/12022010021.jpg)
(http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn210/lance_m45/12022010020.jpg)
(http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn210/lance_m45/12022010022.jpg)
I like that, it would look real tidy and all if it wasnt for all the blue hose. ::)
you'll be happy to know tommo the blue pipe is what he gets in intercooler fitting kits dirt cheap from ebay i think. also uses blackbird bike throttle bodies.
Fair do. Blue hose winds me up summot terrible. To me it just screams that whoever has put it on has no taste and wishes to tell anyone that lifts their bonnet that they have 'modified' their car and its super awesome fast bee and ting. Same type of people who fit a dumpvalve and then changes gear when they drive past bus stops to make sure that the whole world knows they are a complete and utter cock.
Am I alone in this view or is anyone else a lover of satin black?
I am with you on this one I'm not a great fan of blue hoses my car came with a full conlmplement of blue hoses wich I shall be replaing all of with black kore discreet items
i really hate them tbh, i would get black silicone hoses - thats it. blue ones are gash!
i have a bag full of blue ones ill be using. got them off my mates turbo corsa when he changed all his to yellow. i am a big van of anything for nothing. if i really wanted to change the colour id just paint mine black lol.
Yeah, definitely with you on this Tommo.
All my silicone hoses are black, the only thing worse than blue hoses are those red ones! ::)
Edit.. Lance, give your mate that's fitting the YELLOW :o hoses a sound thrashing will ya! :D
yeah I use black hoses too as I hate blue ones, or any daft colour really. however decent silicon is expensive so I don't think I'd be that fussed about it if someone gave me a load for nowt :)
Tommo, you're spot on about blue! Black for me too. There's a fair selection of colours available from Samco these days, most are loud and bright though!
Given the choice I'd always go for black but I'm not about to bin perfectly good silicone becuase its the wrong colour! I'm not made of money.
;D ;D
Im surprised how much taste you boys have ;) lol.
Im totally with you lot who have got it for nowt though, I would even put up with it if it was pink and had LED's that flashed on it lighting up little max power logo's if it was free. The only free hose I ever get is from wagon breakers, but you never get quite what your after.
To quote militant black guy...
"you get free hoes, you get a free disease" haha.