I recently bought a 2nd hand (6mnth old) pps frame now I know it's not new so I wasn't expecting a1 condition but I would just like to say the welds look very messey and untidy. The welding on the gearbox mount had cracked. And one of the spherical bearings is completley seized and the other felt ropey only after 6 months!! I got it because it was cheap wish I hadn't now!! I know the spherical bearings can have boots over them wich i am going to buy n fit but the welding realy was very un impressive !
Just in my experince maybe this was a bad one n the rest of them are good buy that's what mines like !!
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv92/antywill666/IMG_0068.jpg)
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv92/antywill666/IMG_0070.jpg)
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv92/antywill666/IMG_0071.jpg)
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv92/antywill666/IMG_0078.jpg)
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv92/antywill666/IMG_0072.jpg)
We have a coded welder manafacture ours, and use the correct rubber boots. Avoids both of the above problems.
Buy cheap, buy twice.
your damn right yoof realy wish id bought one of yours now !! and if i can get a refund i will buy one of yours !! you got any left ??
looks like i have been welding that with my smart gassless welder lol, saying that it looks even worse than my efforts!
surely he cant sell them like that! its unsafe! sure nobodu else has been at it?
when it come to buying a subframe, for me there was only one choice, a ppp one as the workmanship on it is second to non and have been tried and tested for years.
sorry to hijack boys, but any word on thoose stage 3 frames yoof
cheers
I have to say, it does look like someone has been playing with that... The welds on mine are spot on, plus my gearbox mount looks nothing like that!! It looks like someone has deffinately bodged that about. Plus mine came with boots...
I think you need to have a word with whoever you bought it from before you go complaining about the workmanship of the frame originally.
Did you not see pics of the frame before you bought it?
yea i did and i did ask about the quality of the welds n rose joints i was then told that they where all fine n dandy i didnt see close up pics of every weld joint and you cant test a rose joint through a picture ! i have complained to the person i bought it from i have aslo sent the pictures to stuart who makes them to see what he thinks as all the other stuff ive herd have been great about his frames
Did you pay via paypal? If so get a complaint raised saying good are not as discribed. If you have pics and your email then the seller doesn't really have a leg to stand on and you should get your money back...
Hope you can get it sorted!!
ive spoken to the seller and they offered me some cash £30 to re weld the gearbox mount and replace both rose joints , ive also emailed stuart who amkes them to see what he says.and stupidly i paid him as a gift to avoid fees so i think i may not even have a leg to stand on there !!
looks like not enough penetration on the welds shocking! i would get the hole frame welded to be on the safe side!
if you have his address i know what id do!
whats his name so we know not to buy anything off him?
not sure its the blokes fault as he just had it fitted to his car n he didnt do the welding or anything like that ! im waiting for stuarts reply he mite be a really good guy wich is what ive found so far and replace the frame with a new one wich isnt so shoddy ! so i aint gnna get angry yet
jesus, that is bad
before we start slating people etc
so you bought it off someone, who bought it new from PPS? if this is the case then it is looking very likely the lad you bought it off is telling porkies, and please name them if this is the case, let them come and either admit to it, or say that they bought it new like that.
It defo looks like afterwards welding, but you have to ask why was it welded after...
His name on club polo is charlie292 and the name that appeared on paypal was carole fagg dunno if it was his account or not. These welds are not new additions they are original as you can see it is the original powdercoating still I am shocked at the quality as I herd lots of good reviews I have asked him for my money back n he hasn't replied yet. I also noticed on close inspection that a 1/2" 5/8" rod end has been use and a m 12 bolt has been fitted making it a sloppy fit in the bore of each rose joint , work in metric or imperial not both !! I'm going to keep campeigning untill I get a better frame or just a refund would do .
Fagg ha ha, well i thinks its been welded again. Id bet he tried to fit it on a bent chassis, so has cut and re welded to make it fit. Either way its really shocking! Stuart that sells the stuff is spot on so he'll help as much as he can. Dont think he'd want his name turned to dirt.
http://www.clubpolo.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=180443&hl=
yeah id be interested what the PPS guy has to say, but like disaster says it does look the original powder coating
For sure it was original powder coating n you would be able to tell if it had been disturbed. I've spoke. To mr fagg and he's refunded me £25 he won't take the frame back as and I quote he said " I don't want the frame back in the condition I sent it to you " !!! Paypal rnt really going to care as I sent it him as a Gordy even though I did say for the subframe as discussed on the fourm in the nots so I mite try openeing a cas but I dnt expect I'll get ne where quick. Stuart hasn't got back to me yet but I asked him to either reniigg the one I've got or send me a new one I dnt want to slagg him off cause I think he does make some great products at great prices just this one doesn't seem to be ne good ! I'm going to let him get back to me n see what happens from there. Ohhhhhh how I wish I'd just paid full price n bought a ppp one now :(
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww34/Cymro1321/DSCF0016-1.jpg)
From looking at that picture, I'd say the welding was original...
We'll have more in stock on the 20th Feb.
I don't think this Stuart guy is going to do fuck all for you i wouldn't as you brought it second hand and not from him!
Quote from: Yoof on February 05, 2010, 01:25:22 PM
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww34/Cymro1321/DSCF0016-1.jpg)
From looking at that picture, I'd say the welding was original...
We'll have more in stock on the 20th Feb.
they look just like my welds and iv only just started welding!
is that weld? or just a bit of silver cow shit thats splattered up...
yeah im no great welder, but i know a shit weld when i see one
I await Fred to come on here and lay down the law and abuse someone!
There goes £300 down the shitter then !!! Think my only option may be to replace the rose joint that's shagged get the broken weld re welded and paint the gearbox mount again n sell it to try n make my cash back on club polo. And yoof provided I can sell this one and at least make some of my cash back can you put my name down for one of your frames stage 3 please i'm more than happy to pay the price for a decent bit of kit !!!
Ohh and has any one else who's got one of these noticed these shocking welds on theirs out of intrest ??
Theirs quite afew people on Polo3 who have them. I'll try and find some info
Ok guys got a reply from stuart and he's been realy realy
nice about it all and appoligised he said I will recieve a brand new frame
from him with new rods n ends arms everything. So this shows he is a very fair bloke I will post pics of new frame as soon as I get it thanks all!
Bloody hell, hats off to him for sending you a new frame! As cheddarcheese said, I would have expected nothing being a second hand frame. I suppose the cost to him is nothing compared to having a reputation for suppling bad parts.
Still, good result for you though, £300 for a brand new subframe and a second hand one to repair and sell on!
Hats off to PPS boy for giving you a new frame.
If it was me i would sell the PPS frame on and buy a PPP, the issue i would have is trusting the replacement frame, if the original frame showed signs of failing which is has then there is no reason why it wouldn't happen to the new one.
End of the day the PPP one is tried and tested on powerful G40's!
I think I'm one of the few on here who's got a PPS subframe and I'm delighted with it. Weld quality 'looks' excellent (no NDT testing)and general finish was excellent. Two winters use and all joints still perfect (packed boots with waterproof grease). It was a problem free fit even for an old guy like me, in the street,mostly with aid of inspection lamp. I really can't see Stuart putting out such a fucked up effort and his actions here speak louder than words.
Well not a bad outcome fairplay to the PPS guy.
hes asked me to send the old frame back to him and hell replace it he said that although i bought the frame secondhand he is going to treat me like his customer as the frame is still his he took full responsibilty for the welds altough he thought somthing has gone on with the gearbox mount something suspect. Any how i get a new frame and ill post some pics up on here of the quality of the welding .
In response to you robin i will se the quality of the new frame before i make any desisions like that but it has nocked my confidence in the quality of this frame and i will be closley inspecting the frame i may even take it into work and have it ndt tested or put it through the ultrasonic automatic bond test as work so we will defiantly see i will definatly be keeping ppp frame in mind though as tried and tested on the highest powered g's talks volumes to me
yeah as said, he has done the right thing, but if it went out like that then its worrying, quality control with things like this, can cost lives.
I know that sounds a bit extreme, but it only takes it to happen once!
Exactly Dan- now Polo PP is a registered business we're also having to stump the cost of public liability insurance. If that frame had been run on a car, snapped, and the death or injury traced back to it, then the liability falls to the manafacturer- possibly being liable for hundreds of thousands.
Of the weld in the 1st pic there are 2 reasons for the Fail.
If you weld 2 different thicknesses of steel together with a Mig
then the way is to point the wire ever so slightly to the thicker metal.
To me, I`d say the welder was set too low and was too much to one
side.
This creates what we call a Cold Lap Weld by where the heat is absorbed
into one side but laps or settles on the other without penetration.
It is worth bearing in mind that cheap black shitty steel has a shaley finish
and some of the power/ampage of the welder is taken up burning through this
slag like finish.
Sanding the steel clean is as important as the setting in my eye`s for a good weld.
I used to work at a Local Lift firm and their (Ugly Fat Toad) welder had 1 setting (Low)
for everything and hence he did welds like that. Scary when you consider those Lift`s
went up and down a shaft all day.
I became Fred the grass as i notified the boss and in turn became an enemy of all his dosser cronies and frequently found lift car floor screws strategically placed under my van wheel after 2 seperate punctures and thinking it was odd that the same type of screw was in both and the same tyre (Passenger front).
This is what happens when you care and upset the easy life of those who don`t give a
Poohdoo and get away with whatever they can.
Thankfully i moved on to better things and having been out of work since xmas i have been almost a week in a new setup welding Titanium Footpegs for Moto crossers and the likes.
http://www.raptortitanium.com/
Fred.
Good welding knowledge Fred!
All the best with your new venture - pegs look sweet!
fred is the bo daddy at welding :D
Quote from: Yoof on February 05, 2010, 01:25:22 PM
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww34/Cymro1321/DSCF0016-1.jpg)
Looking at that its not so much the welding I would be worried about, it would be the poor design of the tie bar mount. Would it hurt so much to put a gusset in there? Thats a massive stress concentration where that tube welds to the main frame bit. Probably still more than up to the job as I know its not megga forces involved, but good practice would be to gusset that, or change the design.
Good to have folk like Fred on the forum and even better that he's earning again. As for his experience with his last employer, that's much more prevalent than you might think. You're well out of it Fred.
Quote from: Tommo on February 07, 2010, 10:01:34 AM
Quote from: Yoof on February 05, 2010, 01:25:22 PM
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww34/Cymro1321/DSCF0016-1.jpg)
Looking at that its not so much the welding I would be worried about, it would be the poor design of the tie bar mount. Would it hurt so much to put a gusset in there? Thats a massive stress concentration where that tube welds to the main frame bit. Probably still more than up to the job as I know its not megga forces involved, but good practice would be to gusset that, or change the design.
100% agree- if you're gonna copy, copy correctly ;)
Ours:
(http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u124/Polo-pp/Subframes/Subframe1.jpg)
If your gonna copy. Learn to weld.
Quite frankly! that subframe is a DEATHTRAP and if it was handed to me then i`d grind out most of those welds and redoo them.
I did wonder if it was a copy someone as made having access to a pps frame before it was fitted.
I hope the Guy at PPS acknowledges its from his stable and doesn`t contact you saying whats this your trying to pull.
Either way! Until its sorted it`s Scrap and the comment that i wouldn`t be too worried about the welds is Wrong.
There are 2 types of People in every trade, Those that care and will De-Burr and sand sharp edges and produce good Quality work and those that Don`t give a F**k and produce POOHDOO.
Unfortunatley! Poohdoo outways Quality these days in lots of area`s.
Thats why the country`s Fooooked Coz it`s run by Dollopers. lol.
Either way that Subframe needs to go back because if its just cut back on the welds and re-welded it will warp out of true so needs to get cleaned off and put back on the Jig prior to welding.
I was 1st Tested and Coded way back when Doncaster Prison was being built.
Several of us we`re tested and at least half failed but they had the chance to do it again and most passed.
Thankfully i passed 1st time but i wer crappin it coz i wer a self Taught welder and didn`t take any courses or the likes to become a welder.
Near to me is The Barnoldswick Rolls Royce works and One of the Guys i`m making the footpegs with told me a tale and said this is as true as it gets- Several welders wer on a Night shift and had to do a test piece each to be trusted on an important job.
They wer all brickin it with worry and they got the Guy who they considered to be the God of welders there to do all their test pieces.
What happened was that all the cheaters test pieces passed and the guy who did them had his own fail.
Karma perhaps but it does say that even a Coded welder can pass one day and not the next.
Failures in already Coded welders is Quite common but isn`t too much to worry about as it will never fall to bits because usually the fail is down to a tiny amount of oxidisation deep in the weld.
Thanks for the comments Anyhow folk and
Best of luck with the subframe fella.
Fred.
I have been assured I will be receiving a completly new frame. I will post up some pictures of the quality when I recieve it's Stuarts customer care has been great so far and he did hold his hands up and appoligise for the welds although he though someone had done somthing to the gearbox mount since it left him. Hopefully it will all work out for the best thanks for the advise and support
Cheddercheese! If you ever want advice on welding then feel free to ask.
Fred.
thank you fred. I really could do with some advice soon.
Quote from: Yoof on February 07, 2010, 07:31:54 PM
100% agree- if you're gonna copy, copy correctly ;)
Ours:
(http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u124/Polo-pp/Subframes/Subframe1.jpg)
Got to hand it to you Yoof, the design of that looks way better to me. And no harder to manufacture (probably easyer tbf)
Hmm!! I had plans to order a subframe from PPS, but this just made not so sure about that...!!
Hadn't compared those 2 subframes before this thread....!! :-\
recieved the replacement frame a couple of months ago actualy now but have been lazy and not put phots up but here they are stuart from pps is a realy nice bloke and he made the new frame the colour i wanted and he even included rubber boots for the rod ends but after seeing that cracked weld i didnt fancy trusting a pps frame so i bought a different one but here are the photos of the new frame so you can all make your minds up what you think.
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv92/antywill666/DSCF1063.jpg)
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv92/antywill666/DSCF1062.jpg)
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv92/antywill666/DSCF1061.jpg)
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv92/antywill666/DSCF1060.jpg)
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv92/antywill666/DSCF1059.jpg)
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv92/antywill666/DSCF1054.jpg)
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv92/antywill666/DSCF1053.jpg)
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv92/antywill666/DSCF1052.jpg)
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv92/antywill666/DSCF1051.jpg)
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv92/antywill666/DSCF1048.jpg)
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv92/antywill666/DSCF1047.jpg)
(http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv92/antywill666/DSCF1043.jpg)
Hmmmmmmm
Their still rather Poohdoo.
That run in 2nd pic was possibly hot enough on power but the guys gone too fast
and the weld hasn`t had time to spread.
I`d say it`s the same welder as the 1st frame and the guy`s got a little better lol.
so in summary. Arnold Droppings.
Fred.