Club G40 Forum

Technical => Chassis & Braking => Topic started by: dub-disaster on December 27, 2009, 06:46:40 PM

Title: Ppp subframe does it rub on full lock
Post by: dub-disaster on December 27, 2009, 06:46:40 PM
Reasearching a little about subframes and have heard that pps ones although cheaper and more avalible rub when on full lock and I do t fancy this at all on my car just finding if this is the same on the ppp ones I've got 15" wheels fitted so if any one has any experience of this let me know cheers
Title: Re: Ppp subframe does it rub on full lock
Post by: djtez on December 27, 2009, 06:59:41 PM
have got ppp one, 14x7's
never rubbed full loclyet im 80-85mm down on kw's
but 15's in my opinion are just a tad too bit, cant imagin much problems
Title: Re: Ppp subframe does it rub on full lock
Post by: breadman on December 27, 2009, 07:52:17 PM
I think you'd only experience problems with rubbing on full lock if you run wheels with more offset than ET38 and or large rolling radius tyres.

 
Title: Re: Ppp subframe does it rub on full lock
Post by: scotsjohn on December 27, 2009, 09:18:26 PM
I'm running a PPS subframe and the problem as Breadman says is choice of wheel offset. 5MM spacers cured it for me.
Title: Re: Ppp subframe does it rub on full lock
Post by: Yoof on December 27, 2009, 09:25:37 PM
Our pickup points are different- some wheel/tyre combinations may have problems, generally they foul on the arch before our frames, I can't comment on the others though...

Title: Re: Ppp subframe does it rub on full lock
Post by: dub-disaster on December 27, 2009, 10:15:20 PM
Thanks yoof, what's the current amount of time I'd have to wait if I placed and order 2mro?? And what is your current price do clubg40 members get a discount??
Title: Re: Ppp subframe does it rub on full lock
Post by: hayesey on December 29, 2009, 06:40:24 PM
I have 15" wheels on mine and it doesn't rub.  It's not as low as it used to be right now but I did have it 60mm lowered too and still no rubbing.  The only rubbing with 15" wheels is the tyre on the inner arch.
Title: Re: Ppp subframe does it rub on full lock
Post by: Yoof on December 29, 2009, 07:44:59 PM
Went to see the supplier today- there's 2 Stage 3 frames ready and waiting. Didn't pick them up today as I've got no room in the car to take them back. When I pick my car up at the end of the month I'll collect them too. So a couple of weeks  :)

£515 delivered is the best price I can do on these I'm afraid, we will have some Club G40 specific discounts on certain products in the New Year though...
Title: Re: Ppp subframe does it rub on full lock
Post by: dub-disaster on December 30, 2009, 03:29:13 AM
How many you getting yoof are they all spoken for already?? And once fitted what needs setting up geometry wise?? Or just in general what needs setting up??
Title: Re: Ppp subframe does it rub on full lock
Post by: Yoof on December 30, 2009, 09:37:45 AM
You'll need the castor angle setting to suit your needs- or you can measure the wheelbase and correct either side to suit. I run as much castor as possible without my wheel fouling the arch, as the turn in is much sharper and the steering more direct. An increase in castor will make the car wonder more at speed- it's about finding the balance.

If you don't know what a good strarting point is, I suggest you measure the wheelbase of you car (side to side) and then use the subframe to correct the differance, any change in castor will knock the toe out slightly, but once you've found a castor angle right for you, get the car tracked up for toe too.

GAF2 has expressed an interest in one of the stage 3 frames as has yourself. When I'm infront of my works laptop this weekend I can write this down and PM you for a holding deposit.

Anymore questions please ask  :)

Cheers

Pete
Title: Re: Ppp subframe does it rub on full lock
Post by: dub-disaster on December 30, 2009, 02:17:07 PM
ok im going to sound very stupid now   :-[ but am i correct in thinking that castor is where the wheel sits in the wheel arch ?? how is the castor angle measured and adjusted?
how many frames have you go made up is it another batch of ten ?
i would be intrested in a subframe and will await your pm cheers yoof
Title: Re: Ppp subframe does it rub on full lock
Post by: NeilG40 on December 30, 2009, 06:12:30 PM
The easiest way I can think of explaining castor is to imagine a line going vertically downwards through the hub, now think of the hub pivoting on that line.  For negative castor imagine the line tilting backwards, now think how the hub pivots.

A good visual way of seeing it is to hold a 10p piece between your thumb and index finger at the clock positions 12 and 6, pivot the 10p then move your fingers to 1 and 7 and pivot it again.

Hope that makes sense.
Title: Re: Ppp subframe does it rub on full lock
Post by: jez1272gt on December 30, 2009, 06:20:34 PM
Castor is the angle of the strut from the vertical position as you look at the car side on. This obviously affects the position of the wheel in the arch... type it into google and there will be plenty on it.

Dub-disater, you are obviously interested in cars and are keen to learn so i think it would do you a world of good to get a book such as 'fundamentals of motor vehicles' or something similar, that will give you a good understanding of all the basics and theories and a good base to learn more from. Just a suggestion but i think it would help you out alot and answer some of the questions you have.
Title: Re: Ppp subframe does it rub on full lock
Post by: dub-disaster on December 31, 2009, 12:07:20 AM
Yes I am intrested about cars and I am keen. To learn I don't mean to be a nusance and ask so many questions I am just young and impatient I suppose !! I am Reading a few books about the baisics at the moment, a couple on engine baisics baisic tuning and forced induction I havnt got round to getting one that deals with things such as castor yet but I will if you have read any good ones when you where learning the do say n I'll give them a read.
Oh and I've just read up about castor cambre and toe so I get the baisics of it now.
Title: Re: Ppp subframe does it rub on full lock
Post by: hayesey on December 31, 2009, 10:25:50 AM
just use google, there's a wealth of information out there on the Internet.  For example, googling castor angle will get you some very good descriptions with diagrams and everything.  Far better explanations than you'll just get from a reply on here.  I use google like this all the time for finding out about things I don't fully understand, either to do with cars or at work or for anything...
Title: Re: Ppp subframe does it rub on full lock
Post by: dub-disaster on December 31, 2009, 12:22:51 PM
Yea that's what I did in the end, what type of gearbox mount comes with the stage 3 ppp frame is it the same as on the stage 2 and what's the purpose of changing the gearbox mount is it just so that the frame fits better??
Title: Re: Ppp subframe does it rub on full lock
Post by: hayesey on December 31, 2009, 12:31:05 PM
the frame wont fit at all without the new gearbox mount.  The original mount blocks the way the tube needs to go, to shape the tube around the mount would mean it'd have to go under the mount and it'd be too low down.
Title: Re: Ppp subframe does it rub on full lock
Post by: GAF2 on January 02, 2010, 07:34:48 PM
found this useful, if like me you are just starting to learn about handling(castor, toe and so on).

http://www.simpsonmotorsport.co.uk/uploads/files/SuspensionSetup.pdf

cheers grant
Title: Re: Ppp subframe does it rub on full lock
Post by: giorgio on January 06, 2010, 12:00:15 AM
mine rubs on full lock but I run mk2 golf steels which are like et45.

also - just guess a castor angle until you get it set up. The wheelbase varies so much on a polo its actually scary.
Title: Re: Ppp subframe does it rub on full lock
Post by: djtez on January 06, 2010, 05:13:53 PM
Anyone got tips or settings for caster ,toe in & out for polo?
Title: Re: Ppp subframe does it rub on full lock
Post by: giorgio on January 06, 2010, 10:40:20 PM
you are limited to what you can do becuase of the design, buy Yoofington has made an adjustable tca which means you would be free to play around to your hearts content, once he starts selling them I pressume.

Best bet is to pick a number out your ars (just till the wheels are in the middle of the arch, but careful you don't run out of thread)
then drive down to a place that has proper equipment. Its a major hassle to box it all up and start doing it by hand.

Yoof sent me the first draft of some instructions way back when so if you PM him then he should be able to help you out.
Title: Re: Ppp subframe does it rub on full lock
Post by: dub-disaster on January 06, 2010, 10:47:53 PM
Could I get a copy of them two please thanks :)
Title: Re: Ppp subframe does it rub on full lock
Post by: djtez on January 06, 2010, 11:29:00 PM
I've done a little googling, it says between 2 and 5 degree -caster is normal as it enables straigh line stability...?