Club G40 Forum

Technical => Engine and Transmission => Topic started by: olethalb on July 05, 2014, 06:37:18 PM

Title: Losing the plot - anyone who can suggest a fix for this is my hero
Post by: olethalb on July 05, 2014, 06:37:18 PM
Ok to summarise, g40 in mk1 golf been in the workshop running fine for 2 months in and out, idle perfect never missed a beat

2 days ago ran out of fuel and this is where it all went wrong

Car starts, drives perfectly but will not idle

Parts changed

Blue temp
Co
Ecu
Fpr
Dizzy
Cap and arm
Leads
Plugs
Injectors
3 x idle control valves

Cleaned out fuel rail
Tb
Fitted new fuel filter
Dropped pumps and cleaned out
Dropped some 'petrol magic' in the tank
Checked micro switches on tb with multi meter

Lambda is new bosch and makes no difference if unplugged

All parts removed from mk1 have also been fitted onto running polo g40 and that runs fine with all parts swapped out 

Tb gaskets are good

Makes no difference really if blue temp sensor is unplugged

Occasionally runs better with tb unplugged

I'm at the end with this

Any help greatly appreciated
Title: Re: Losing the plot - anyone who can suggest a fix for this is my hero
Post by: C0UP3 on July 05, 2014, 08:43:15 PM
If you lambda isn't making any difference then check the earthing on it plus check the loom for any breaks. Unplugging a lambda should put ecu in safe mode and make the car run a cold start fuel and spark map. Runs richer and will idle higher.

Does it make any difference between hot or cold running?
Title: Re: Losing the plot - anyone who can suggest a fix for this is my hero
Post by: olethalb on July 05, 2014, 08:52:53 PM
Earthing point is good and new as is loom

98% of the time sputters and cuts out, the 2% it idles at 2000rpm for around a minute then cuts out

Only from stone cold does it idle ok til auto choke comes of
Title: Re: Losing the plot - anyone who can suggest a fix for this is my hero
Post by: olethalb on July 05, 2014, 09:01:32 PM
Nothing changes if you unplug anything really, only tb sometimes
Title: Re: Losing the plot - anyone who can suggest a fix for this is my hero
Post by: Etches on July 05, 2014, 09:40:53 PM
Sounds like blue temp wiring has an open circuit, have you checked all the plugs n loom over?
Title: Re: Losing the plot - anyone who can suggest a fix for this is my hero
Post by: PeteG40 on July 05, 2014, 09:53:27 PM
Check alternator and battery as the sensors get the hump without proper voltage
Title: Re: Losing the plot - anyone who can suggest a fix for this is my hero
Post by: olethalb on July 05, 2014, 10:25:34 PM
Checked idle circuit and blue temp circuit

Battery is new and strong and alternator kicking out decent volts

Surely symptoms of a dying fuel pump would be more apparent at wot?
Title: Re: Losing the plot - anyone who can suggest a fix for this is my hero
Post by: Alexiskayak_7 on July 06, 2014, 03:10:17 AM
What happens at wot conditions. Everything is ok, or you feel a hesitation?
Title: Re: Losing the plot - anyone who can suggest a fix for this is my hero
Post by: PeteG40 on July 06, 2014, 07:16:55 AM
What's ' decent volts' ?

And what's the co pot set to?

How old is the coil?
Title: Re: Losing the plot - anyone who can suggest a fix for this is my hero
Post by: olethalb on July 06, 2014, 07:52:32 AM
Wot is strong all the way to limiter

Coil was new but tried 2 others

Battery seeing 13.5 when running
Title: Re: Losing the plot - anyone who can suggest a fix for this is my hero
Post by: olethalb on July 06, 2014, 07:53:28 AM
Co set to 550 and tried 2 others too
Title: Re: Losing the plot - anyone who can suggest a fix for this is my hero
Post by: Ben.lopo on July 06, 2014, 09:42:35 AM
How about the knock sensor?
Title: Re: Losing the plot - anyone who can suggest a fix for this is my hero
Post by: Alexiskayak_7 on July 06, 2014, 05:03:25 PM
1)Have you checked all the vaccum lines and generally all the hoses that are around the inlet manifold
2)Also check the condition o the inlet mani and throttle body gasket by pooring water while it is working.
3)Have you checked the fuel pressure and supply?

Otherwise, check with a multymeter all the terminals of the loom. It is really weird the fact that doesn't change anything while you unplug blue temp sensor and lamda sensor.
Title: Re: Losing the plot - anyone who can suggest a fix for this is my hero
Post by: olethalb on July 06, 2014, 10:31:46 PM
Wasn't aware knock sensor would affect idle

I appreciate the suggestions given so far but must say this only happened when it ran out of fuel

There are only 2 vac lines and no servo on this car, all pipes are new and checked

Had the tb off and cleaned it and checked gasket, usually sucking excess air will always cause high idle

Checking fuel pressure tomorrow

Have run continuenvpcy tests on the loom

I'm starting to struggle to belive anything would have failed at the exact moment it ran out of fuel.....
Title: Re: Losing the plot - anyone who can suggest a fix for this is my hero
Post by: Ben.lopo on July 06, 2014, 11:01:49 PM
How old is the tank sometimes with clleaning it out brings up shit in the pipes even tho you've cleaned them out this May have blocked an injector still , but still I'd check knock sensor and lambda
Title: Re: Losing the plot - anyone who can suggest a fix for this is my hero
Post by: z3i on July 07, 2014, 06:55:22 AM
Knock sensor won't affect idle! It's not even in use then

Fuel filter would filter out any crap so wouldn't even reach the injectors

Were you giving it some when It run out of fuel?
Title: Re: Losing the plot - anyone who can suggest a fix for this is my hero
Post by: olethalb on July 07, 2014, 08:14:32 AM
the car has run fine for 2 months in and out of the workshop - left idleing for an hour at a time sometimes, nothing changed until it ran out of fuel

didn't think knock had anything to do with idle but been a long long time since i got involved with g40 stuff, mainly 1.8T and tfsi these days

i went to rev it, it bogged then i booted it to the limiter then it bogged and sputtered ( had no dash at the time so was unaware of low fuel) nursed it back into the workshop - threw £2 of fuel in and fired straight up
Title: Re: Losing the plot - anyone who can suggest a fix for this is my hero
Post by: olethalb on July 07, 2014, 11:14:07 PM
Ok swapped both fuel pumps

Still stutters and doesn't idle but when i remove blue sensor plug idle raises to what sounds like 1500 and when i unplug lambda idle raises to about 1300 by sound

Tried another throttle body and gaskets

Checked fuel pressure, steady 3 bar

13v at battery on idle

Only thing i haven't swapped is lambda
Title: Re: Losing the plot - anyone who can suggest a fix for this is my hero
Post by: Etches on July 08, 2014, 07:16:07 AM
May aswell change the lambda whilst you are here lol.

Sounds like blue temps working (is it a new vw item?)

Have you checked the dizzy timing again now and set it with blue temp unplugged?
Title: Re: Losing the plot - anyone who can suggest a fix for this is my hero
Post by: olethalb on July 08, 2014, 01:31:32 PM
yea set timing 3 sensors now, original, new topran and new OE all do the same, lambda is brand new bosch - i don't want to buy another haha
Title: Re: Losing the plot - anyone who can suggest a fix for this is my hero
Post by: olethalb on July 10, 2014, 10:57:55 PM
Does anyone have complete pin out wiring diagram for ecu to engine sensors?
Title: Re: Losing the plot - anyone who can suggest a fix for this is my hero
Post by: olethalb on July 10, 2014, 11:20:41 PM
If i rev it alot it idles like this

(http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk32/ollethalb/mk1%20G40/0D508E5B-DC0F-4B1A-B89A-09B4871A82B5_zpskit9pqb0.mp4)

And after a minute or two starts doing this

(http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk32/ollethalb/mk1%20G40/071A8560-5422-4370-AD68-C0BE91303948_zpsbcqcedsn.mp4)

And eventually splutters and cuts out
Title: Re: Losing the plot - anyone who can suggest a fix for this is my hero
Post by: brownysblower on July 12, 2014, 07:10:18 AM
Sounds like your alternator may be faulty
Producing ac current !! This will fire injectors
Randomly
Have you got a spare one to try
Ps check earth strap from charger to chassis
Has a good clean contact !
Title: Re: Losing the plot - anyone who can suggest a fix for this is my hero
Post by: Ben.lopo on July 12, 2014, 07:49:20 AM
What fuel are you using? Gs don't like anything but v power
Title: Re: Losing the plot - anyone who can suggest a fix for this is my hero
Post by: PeteG40 on July 13, 2014, 09:41:44 PM
Old fuel can be bad. But I ran a g daily for 5-6 years on cheap supermarket fuel.
Title: Re: Losing the plot - anyone who can suggest a fix for this is my hero
Post by: olethalb on July 15, 2014, 07:54:13 AM
thanks for the replies, as stated earths were new, after it ran out it had £50 of optimax, alternator was tested

**PROBLEM CURED - brand new bosch lambda had crapped out, fitted another lambda and ran perfect  ::) **

thanks for all the suggestions, hopefully this can help others in future

Olly
Title: Re: Losing the plot - anyone who can suggest a fix for this is my hero
Post by: Lionheart on July 15, 2014, 10:35:36 PM
Had same problem recently where Bosch lasted 3 months after rebuild, really screwed up engine mgt, new lambda went in after doing most/all of the things you tried and sorted it! 
Good to hear you are back rolling...
Title: Re: Losing the plot - anyone who can suggest a fix for this is my hero
Post by: randombadger69 on July 16, 2014, 12:26:40 AM
Could suspect fuel has caused this? Or is it more likely a bad batch of sensors.

Have replaced lambda sensors in both my Gees recently with Bosch ones.  :-\
Title: Re: Losing the plot - anyone who can suggest a fix for this is my hero
Post by: olethalb on July 17, 2014, 09:49:05 AM
thanks chaps

well there was probably £5 - £10 that had been in the tank for 10 years

before first start had £20 of optimax

then £30 of optimax

unfortunately had a mate bring me some fuel when it was running low (£50 of fuel idling haha) and that was £30 of tesco's finest cheepo crap

after it ran out on that (no dash installed) thats when it went boobs up

chucked £50 more optimax in it but obviously lambda had passed away by that point :(
Title: Re: Losing the plot - anyone who can suggest a fix for this is my hero
Post by: youngprodigys on July 20, 2014, 12:01:11 PM
You more than likely killed the lambda sensor yourself! rather than it being defective. You said previously that no dash was installed so you couldnt see the fuel gauge - in doing this you will have ran without a D+ exciter signal to the alternator. Without the alternator charging the battery combined with the large drag on the crank of the supercharger you will have been running at less than the Digifants required 12.5V. This triggers the Digifant to run in default mode and will overfuel the car (even at idle) always run the alternator mate!

Plugging the car into the diagnostics will have pointed you in the direction straight away - i recommend you buy yourself a vagcom 409 lead, a 2+2 adapter and run vwtool as this is a known compatible problem to diagnose the G40s Digifant system.

KiZ