Club G40 Forum
Technical => Engine and Transmission => Topic started by: sinister polo on April 27, 2009, 05:32:39 pm
-
what are the main advantages of doing this?
obviously you must gain power, but how much!
and also what parts and machining would need to be done?
cheers
daryl
-
The main advantage of a 1341cc conversion is reliability.
Forged pistons are used to replace the O.E. cast ones which are prone to melting.
You actually don't gain much power at all just by going to 1341cc, it's only just over a 6% increase in capacity. However, increasing the bore to stroke ratio is worthwhile anyway.
Machining is limited to a simple 77mm rebore and honing of the block.
-
What sort of money for forged pistons Breadman?
-
What sort of money for forged pistons Breadman?
Dunno if Phil still has them, but he had a brand new set of Accralite pistons for sale at £550 delivered. (See for classifieds/parts)
Forged pistons for this conversion are typically circa £150 each.
-
What sort of money for forged pistons Breadman?
As Breadman has said Phil is selling a set of Accralites for £550. This is a good price if you dont want to put much boost through your engine as they raise the standard comp ratio from 8:0 up to 9:0, this is good for driveability on/off boost at low charger pressures. If you do plan to run more boost then its probably better to go with some wossner pistons. These are approximately £400 for the set and retain the 8:0 CR for more boostie fun..
-
which screws up my fun! accralite pistons + eaton charger = ??????????????
-
which screws up my fun! accralite pistons + eaton charger = ??????????????
This is the same problem for me, accralites + K03 = hmm. There was about this exact subject awhile back which andy and yoof had input into iirc. It seems the best way to get the most from the 9:1 ratio is to run aquamist and also retard the timing slightly. Although advised not to im still tempted to try running a de-comp plate if they dont cost a fortune just to see the results?
The best option for me seeing that my bottom end is still on a stand is to strip it back, put wossners in and try and sell the accralites but thats gonnas cost me either way... I was sold the accralites by a mis-informing conman who clearly had a few sets he wanted rid of!!
-
High boost on 9:1 is attainable, but Aquamist and BV head are pretty much essential. The critical part is getting a decent chip.
-
High boost on 9:1 is attainable, but Aquamist and BV head are pretty much essential. The critical part is getting a decent chip.
smooooooth - no link to the chips you're selling ;-)
-
lol
Andy's chips are tasty
-
standalone will manage it all better.
-
High boost on 9:1 is attainable, but Aquamist and BV head are pretty much essential. The critical part is getting a decent chip.
smooooooth - no link to the chips you're selling ;-)
;D
-
standalone will manage it all better.
How's that then?
-
High boost on 9:1 is attainable, but Aquamist and BV head are pretty much essential. The critical part is getting a decent chip.
smooooooth - no link to the chips you're selling ;-)
It's true though, the map is the critical part in any highly modified G40 motor - otherwise you may as well stick on an R5 carb and drill random holes in the jets. Steve always used to say the same, and it still surprises me how many people will spend thousands on an engine and bolt-on bits, and then run it on a generic chip that has fuelling and ignition timing miles off what it needs to be. Robin's det-prone 1341cc (stock head, non-1341cc cam) made an extra 10bhp or so on the dyno with a few minor map tweaks - still needs more, but it proved the theory.
You run massive boost, you need the ignition timing and fuelling setup accordingly. That's the main reason I bought Emerald - so I could tweak the mapping easily myself. In the meantime I carried on messing about with Digifant and got my head round the map structure.
-
standalone can manage the timing and fueling better than stock ecu.
-
standalone can manage the timing and fueling better than stock ecu.
Indeed, but you need to bin the dizzy and install a crank trigger wheel to take advantage of it - something I plan on doing eventually with Emerald. Until I do that, it's no more accurate than Digifant.
-
standalone can manage the timing and fueling better than stock ecu.
How'd you figure that?
-
High boost on 9:1 is attainable, but Aquamist and BV head are pretty much essential. The critical part is getting a decent chip.
smooooooth - no link to the chips you're selling ;-)
It's true though, the map is the critical part in any highly modified G40 motor - otherwise you may as well stick on an R5 carb and drill random holes in the jets. Steve always used to say the same, and it still surprises me how many people will spend thousands on an engine and bolt-on bits, and then run it on a generic chip that has fuelling and ignition timing miles off what it needs to be. Robin's det-prone 1341cc (stock head, non-1341cc cam) made an extra 10bhp or so on the dyno with a few minor map tweaks - still needs more, but it proved the theory.
You run massive boost, you need the ignition timing and fuelling setup accordingly. That's the main reason I bought Emerald - so I could tweak the mapping easily myself. In the meantime I carried on messing about with Digifant and got my head round the map structure.
had a 1341cc cam but no BVH.
Will be using PPP soon to do some custom mapping
-
stock ecu as in shit map sensor and yea yoof yours is all different fair enough, drop the know it all attitude.
-
Digifant Pros and Cons
+ It's already on the car, so free!
+ Re-mappable with full control of fuel and ignition.
+ Can be mapped/tweaked to run a turbo or Eaton.
+ Darn site cheaper than a standalone system, no additional sensors required, wiring's already done etc.
+ Can be cheaply expanded to run switchable maps (circa £50).
+ Custom rev limits possible.
+ Generic 'base map' chips widely available cheaply.
- MAP sensor limits boost to 1 bar - but is easily changed for £50 or so.
- Limited number of places to remap.
- No electronic boost control - but aftermarket electronic boost controllers can fix this.
- Can't run crank trigger wheel and wasted spark for uber-accurate fuelling and ignition. (But a standalone will only be more accurate if you use the crank trigger wheel - if you stick with the paddle in the dizzy it's no better than Digifant).
Be good to add more if anyone can think of them.
It's ultimately cheaper to stick with Digifant if you're only going to get one or two remaps, even if you want switchable maps, a larger MAP sensor and end up buying an electronic boost controller - if you go standalone making the new loom and buying new sensors soon adds up if you're doing it properly.
On the other hand, going standalone can give you lots of new features (e.g. flat-shift, launch control) that Digifant doesn't have, and if you buy something like an Emerald the chances are you'll find somewhere localish that can map it.
-
Well I'm following this thread with interest and I think it deserves a sticky topic just for itself because the importance of the subject...
G-reets,
Bruno
-
calm down kiddywinks, its all about the g40 love...
-
stock ecu as in shit map sensor and yea yoof yours is all different fair enough, drop the know it all attitude.
lol- If you're willing to make a sweeping statement at least explain fully why you think it's shit. The stock digipants ECU is more than capable of running various different combinations of charger/turbo/capacity etc.
In the states you'll find alot of the budget drag boys use G60 Digifpants ECU set-ups, on 8v n/a, 16v n/a, 16vT etc etc because they have a good wealth of knowledge and the ability to calibrate the map to suit.
The answer isn't always to throw money at the problem...
-
So at somepoint the Vernia cam pulley comes into play then. LoL.
Glad i`m just having filter/exhaust mods then :)
Fred.
-
So at somepoint the Vernia cam pulley comes into play then. LoL.
Glad i`m just having filter/exhaust mods then :)
Fred.
:D Soon, I Promise!
-
i never throw money at a problem we cant up here as there is only a couple of people around into performance cars, i got my dta for £300 and ill be fitting it so it wont cost much more that what you will have spent by the time you get a trigger wheel, if your going that route plus the electronic boost controll so i can mess about with having progressive boost maps and things like that, mainly ill be running standalone as ill be using a different throttle positon sonsor on my inlet i am making.
-
I was looking at a very well known show car/track car on the VW scene yesterday.
It ran MOTEC management with 30+ sensors.
Out of those 30 sensors, either 4 or 6 were in use.
If he saved all his money and kept the VAG management, it would've still ran exactly the same with a re-map.
VW didn't spend all that money making an ECU for nothing!
There's a message in this post somewhere... :P
-
i never throw money at a problem we cant up here as there is only a couple of people around into performance cars, i got my dta for £300 and ill be fitting it so it wont cost much more that what you will have spent by the time you get a trigger wheel, if your going that route plus the electronic boost controll so i can mess about with having progressive boost maps and things like that, mainly ill be running standalone as ill be using a different throttle positon sonsor on my inlet i am making.
Great, there's no need to see your arse just because I ask you to justify a sweeping statement. Good to see you're hoping to maximise the extra features of DTA, you thought about front/rear wheel speed sensors for a traction control system?
-
just tend to find alot of people in the (vag scene) are know it all internet keyboard warriors.
yea looked into it a little my mate has used an abs sensor setup on his nova but he can fit the cv's on his but i dont think there is any for an easy fit into a polo hub is their?
launch controll would be good so worth lookin into,
i am making a manifold with bike bodies built into it with pulsar plenium and parts, the ecu will run my injectors plus the bike bodie ones, i was also thinkin of trying to map my nitrus into the dta too.
-
I'm not your average keyboard warrior ;)
A fair few VAG cars use wheel speed sensors, you'll have to make a bracket and work out a way of mounting the trigger wheel ring onto the hub, the rear it should be easy, not so sure about the front, could use an electronic drive off the gearbox speedo drive though.
Launch control can be worked off a maximum rate of acceleration too- so doesn't need wheel speed sensors per say. I.E if speed ramp rate is above Xrpm/s then cut ignition logic.
If you're using a pulsar plenum, why not use pulsar bodies too? I can see the advantage of staged injection, personally I'd use the pulsar stock injectors, and then mount 4 in the rear wall of the plenum and fire them stright into the trumpets- should give good power gains.
As for nitrous, depends how much you want to run, 25bhp hit you'd possibly get away with your normal map, depending on your a/f ratio aims on nitrous. After that a secondary map on DTA when the gas solenoids kick in would be advantegous. Check WON for their staged systems, if you're running staged injection they'd complement each other perfectly, possibly sack off the fuel solenoid and use the second bank of injectors for fuel enrichment.
Food for thought, sounds an interesting project though.
-
didnt no id kick up such a storm with this topic! :o
-
I'm not your average keyboard warrior ;)
A fair few VAG cars use wheel speed sensors, you'll have to make a bracket and work out a way of mounting the trigger wheel ring onto the hub, the rear it should be easy, not so sure about the front, could use an electronic drive off the gearbox speedo drive though.
Launch control can be worked off a maximum rate of acceleration too- so doesn't need wheel speed sensors per say. I.E if speed ramp rate is above Xrpm/s then cut ignition logic.
If you're using a pulsar plenum, why not use pulsar bodies too? I can see the advantage of staged injection, personally I'd use the pulsar stock injectors, and then mount 4 in the rear wall of the plenum and fire them stright into the trumpets- should give good power gains.
As for nitrous, depends how much you want to run, 25bhp hit you'd possibly get away with your normal map, depending on your a/f ratio aims on nitrous. After that a secondary map on DTA when the gas solenoids kick in would be advantegous. Check WON for their staged systems, if you're running staged injection they'd complement each other perfectly, possibly sack off the fuel solenoid and use the second bank of injectors for fuel enrichment.
Food for thought, sounds an interesting project though.
I was thinkin the pulsar ones would be too big but ill look into it.
I like your idea for the staged fuel injection to use in key with the nitrus.
ill look into speed sensors and things once i get it all together and running gotta be able to use it on the road as there is a lack of tracks up here just rally courses.