Club G40 Forum
Club G40 => General Car Chat => Topic started by: supercharged spaniel on August 12, 2009, 06:31:52 pm
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ok chaps..after peteg40's group buy attempt went drastically wrong lol (jokes) i've decided I'll look into it myself..so....what I am proposing to do is see if I can find a company who can remanufacture the boost pipe from the intercooler to the charger but not a flat one with a slight bend in it but basically an exact 'corregated' copy but in stronger longer lasting silicone. There will be no choice of colours, just black however because quite frankly I can't be arsed to mess about with different orders, it will be easier in one colour and to be quite frank you dont see it anyway.
So can we see if we can gather some interest and see how many people will be wanting one? Bare in mind these are 90 quid including vat from VAG. That was a price i got today. so if i could get them from around 40-50? tops? Reason for doing this is the VAG ones, not exactly poor quality but dont seem built to last the test of time before cracks appear. A combination of heat and the tilting of the engine seems to kill these pipes over time. 45 degree bend ones are available but are not in my opinion original enough. Any one with experience of these whats your opinion?
Please don't build your hopes up too much yet, i dont want this to become a right fanny on but i will try my very best and ring some companies tomorrow and gather some research. Those of you who know me know i am an oem whore so only the best will do, so if i dont put up with shite...neither will you recieve shite.
Also i will need a spare to send to some companies as examples and to take photos of, so does anyone have a decent complete one that maybe has a tear in it, so is duff, but is mainly complete they can send to me?
the company who i think might fit the bill are these and this is the one they make which may come out sucessful:
http://www.viperperformance.co.uk/productsearch.php?xscId=9095&mat=104
they also do them like this image which is what i will be proposing:
(http://www.viperperformance.co.uk/images/uploads/generic/viperhumpdrawingx900.jpg)
thanks..Dan.
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nobody
nobody
nobody
nobody
great start lads..keep em coming!!
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I think I have a pipe I on longer use, will have a look tomorrow an let you know.
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i have a spare and i'd be up for one
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Typical bloke style forgot I was at a wedding today..(no it's not mine lol) so I'll not have time to ring so I'll ring tomorrow. If there isn't more interest than what's currently showing I'm not gonna bother though.
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Viper are good for group buys, so you should be ok with that. If there's enough interest I may be able to do some talking to them, I know their PR agency well.
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Spaniel - Polo-PP have a Viper Performance trade account, so should be able to help.
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I'm interested.
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doubt this is gonna happen to be honest...im not bothering for 1 or two people..not worth it.
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It's early days Spaniel; I'd definately be up for one at the fifty quid mark. How few would they make though ?
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I'm interested.
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Put me down i'll definetly be wanting one
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If you can get the numbers I'm happy to sort the tooling out with dan at Viper Performance, we've got a trade account with them so should be able to get up to 25% off list price for you guys.
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Cheers yoof! Potentially looking at this so far there are 7:( possibly. I'd like ten really. Yoof can you pm me what you think so far and where to go from here please? Thanks mate.
supercharged spaniel
peteg40
rae
neilg40
grantvw
scotsjohn
dan
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yeah well thats why im hoping that they can replicate this by sending them an oem one. cant see why not they only need to make a tool for it once. surely theyve done harder shapes and sizes.
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I wasn't planning on doing so. Who else has found this?
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ive been thinking.I'll have to ask them to make the end pieces about 20mm longer..if needs be they can be cut but because of the depth or length of the end caps on the intercooler and the elbow of the charger 20mm shouldnt make a difference.
anyways. Ive made contact with Dan at Viper and the next port of call is a photograph. I need someone with decent camera skills to take a handful of photos of one they have off a car, inside of the pipe is important. Can you pm me them if possible please? could this person also measure the diameter and length as this too would be very helpful.
From there I am hoping to send an example of one to them. One with rips or tears is fine but must be complete without chunks missing. Again I'll need the clubs help for this as I do not have a duff one to send.
One major thing which will effect cost massively is the shape. If I push for an identical copy it could well go into hundreds for the tool because of the inner 'swirl' pattern. If we go for a slightly curved one without these ribs but with the classic 'look' (see first post link) then it should still be very oem but will not be exact. Can we discuss how important this swirl pattern is inside of the pipe? As i said this will drastically effect cost. Obviously any costs at this point are unknown until photographs and a sample are provided but i will ask about an exact copy before anything else.
One more thing to add is numbers. I'd like 10 but 12-15 is a better number so catering for stuff like toothed pullies smaller pullies is obviously important.
thanks guys..if you can help with photos and or samples that'd be great.
Dan
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I wasn't planning on doing so. Who else has found this?
Mine fell short by about 20mm as well.
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well nowt is happening until someone volenteers to take a photo. someone must have one..
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standard hose off.
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ok, so to start with i haven't read this thread. thatd due to me being the worlds skinniest lazy fat bastard. lol
ok last year i needed a hose to fullfill my dreams of connecting my intercoooler to my charger. i found a bloke in harworth Doncaster, called Paul. after a 50 min tour of his unit and a lecture of hoses i discovered that he could provide us with any hoe's,sorry hoses to spec. this includes braided brake hoses (all made to custom spec and lengths). he was telling me he used to visit all the RS ford shows with his mobile workshop.(top bloke when it comes to cars), blah blah, sorry i feel lazy and cant be bothered to type anymore,. for complaints visit www.lazyfatskinnypersonfromsheffield.gov. lol :D :D :D sorry poor.
for anyone looking for hose call paul
http://www.cylex-uk.co.uk/company/hose-direct-ltd-13352043.html
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I have a standard hose off up in the attic, its too late to go and dig it out now, but I will do so tomorrow after work if its still needed :)
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Rae that is a massive help. thank you :)
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just to add cos i don't think any can't be arsed to properly read my messages :D cos i've already asked...what benefit does the 'swirl' design of the pipe have on boost? Is it absolutly necessary?
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i read yr post you arsey get but i have no idea
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Swirl is probably a design compromise. Need the ribs for flexibility, but i would assume their spiral design is better for airfow than straight 90 degree ribs ???
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probably just for strength, one continuous piece of metal throughout the pipe will make it stronger than just separate coils.
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just to add cos i don't think any can't be arsed to properly read my messages :D cos i've already asked...what benefit does the 'swirl' design of the pipe have on boost? Is it absolutly necessary?
Only to oem whores probably. lol. No I can't honestly say Spaniel but I reckon it may be an easier way of building in re-inforcing material. Viper might find that an attractive option.
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Ha ha at pete! Right thanks guys. I've emailed viper and I've explained the need for the pipe to flex so ill see what they say. If It's just a straight pipe which obviously is strong is gonna be easier and cheaper. I'll let you all know asap what they say.
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Maybe the spiral wire reinforcement was just to reduce the hose bulging from internal air pressure. If the hose can't twist at either end the spiral wire will add strength around the circumference.
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Spiral is easier tooling, can screw it off the mould- multiple ribs are harder to remove once complete.
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Cheers yoof! Potentially looking at this so far there are 7:( possibly. I'd like ten really. Yoof can you pm me what you think so far and where to go from here please? Thanks mate.
supercharged spaniel
peteg40
rae
neilg40
grantvw
scotsjohn
dan
chris2911
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I'd have thought 10 would be a minimum order (usually £300+ gets a hefty discount).
I'll e-mail Dan at Viper Performance tomorrow and speak to him about tooling times, deposits, and minimum orders etc. If you're struggling to get 10 Polo-PP could possibly buy the remainder (if we've got the cash).
Viper Performance will require a stock hose (in reasonable condition) to mock up in a CAD package for the tooling, I presume a slight gloss finish to the black hose isn't going to be a problem?
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Yoof Dan will be able to make it in the classic finish which isn't glossy, same finish as my samco on the turbo pipes etc.
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I know, but it's more expensive :P
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This is a stupid question, ??? but if im looking at getting a front mount intercooler, is there much point of getting one of these?
Or is it possible to get a longer length?
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ive already spoke to dan at viper a few weeks back after sending him some photos and its pretty much not going to happen as the minimum numbers are far too many for what we actually have or are going to get.
Hello,
Thank you for your email,
We can make something similar however this will need
special moulds making.
we need to know the angle and overall to see the part,
however I estimate that to make a mould for a hose like this will
cost in the region of around £180-£200 plus the cost of the hoses
which will be about £32. there would be a minimum order
of 20 to 25 pieces as we are charging tooling at cost,
and we will need to make a small profit on the hoses.
Best regards
Dan
As far as im concerned its not worth it for the numbers we have.
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£32 a hose or for the lot of hoses??? makes a difference!
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will be 32 per hose for sure.
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Can we do a balancing act then? I said I'd be willing to go to £50. If we got a smaller than required number paying a higher price would Viper still be interested ?
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Well the way I read it, it means it'll be 32 quid just for the hose..then there's the profit Viper needs to make on each one, then the moulds to add on top of that. So if it's 32 quid just for the hose, plus a profit to Viper, I dunno, say 5-10 quid per hose? Plus 200 quid divided say between 10 orders, your looking at upto 62 quid, plus postage I'd say it's gonna come out around 65 quid per unit. That's my take on it, please correct me if I'm wrong but I think that's how I understood it when explained to me by Dan at Viper. It's still cheaper than VW possibly for a better item? But since we're struggling to crack ten definetes on orders, I'm in two minds as to wether it's worth it?
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I suppose common sense dictates this as being a no-go, which is a pity. It's not as if the boost pipe is a particularly obvious piece of kit, but having what is apparently healthy original spec pipework under the bonnet is quite attractive to me. At this time I'm running a slice of 57mm hosepipe from a c.v. application. Having said that , I got three lengths for about £12.
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i'd say that a 45degree standard 57mm silicone hose for £15 does the job perfectly well?
I don't agree, and never have.
In my opinion the movement in the OE pipe is required to allow for the relative movement between the engine which the charger is bolted to and the body which the intercooler is bolted to.
A standard pipe ie non ribbed / spiral does not allow for this movement and transfers the force to the intercooler endcap, almost making it like an engine mount, which is not ideal.
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there's as much flex in a 45 degree as the stock hose though?!
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Try compressing the 45 degree hose down its length and comparing it a stock hose.