Club G40 Forum
Technical => Superchargers / G-Lader => Topic started by: tdh-syorks on December 16, 2008, 06:09:14 pm
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after stripping my charger down and tidying it all up its now time to re build, i was looking on the net and i called a few places in order to get new seals and bearings etc, the prices i was quoted were extorsionate so i booked everything in through work and got everything for less that 20 quid, they also had most of it in stock, the only thing i had to order were the apex seals as they only had 40 inches in stock. gotta be one of the cheapest re builds ever. first time i've ever done one but its not that difficult really, the hardest part so far was trying to remove the charger from the car. i'm following this article which was put on here some time ago and i don't think you can go wrong from it to be honest
http://www.matey-matey.com/g60-rebuild-article.shtml
back to the topic tho, i think that as soon as you look to buy anything automotive they rape you on the price.
cheers Tom
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what bearings did you get tho? brand etc?
the compound of the apex seals is also essential. too hard and will wear your charger away, too soft and it'll make a fine paste to grind your charger apart!
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they were exact replacements mate, the bearings are made by FAG and the seals are the right compound, they are exact same, only differance is they don't have the VAG number on the seals, i use seals and bearings at work everyday so i know a bit about them,
cheers Tom
p.s pete still ok if i ask for your help if i get stuck rebuilding??
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where did you get the specs of the original bearings and seals from though?
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the ones i took off which were origional, the charger had never been done before. i've got a FAG spec book at work with all the bearings made by FAG inside, the ones i removed from the charger were also made by FAG, that bit was easy, as for the seals i took them down to the shop with the spec sizes i wrote down out of the book and just to be sure i took a printed add i found on the net which had the correct seal part numbers on, all the bearings are a standard size which most bearing shops should stock on the shelves. ill post the add up with the seal part numbers on which i got, basically all i did was remove a bearing, read the part number, look it up in the FAG spec book and just double check the bearing to the book by using some vernier calipers.
http://www.rp-motorsport.de/en/g-lader/g40-parts.htm
cheers Tom
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I've bought oil seals of this guy, very reasonable,
https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/index.php (https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/index.php)
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bearings are the easy part to source to be honest!
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the seals are the right compound, they are exact same, only differance is they don't have the VAG number on the seals, i use seals and bearings at work everyday so i know a bit about them,
cheers Tom
p.s pete still ok if i ask for your help if i get stuck rebuilding??
What make are the seals? I've found that with NAK and Simrit seals, the chargers just spit them out.
Theres a lot more to it than just what meets the eye. The combination of heat, acceleration, oil pressure and boost pressure puts a lot of strain on the seals.
I only use Goetze and QPH seals in the chargers I rebuild for that reason.
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thats them mate goetza, only problem i noticed today is that the smallest of the seals is the wrong grade and wont last 2 mins in there. the others are fine tho, as i said exact replacements.
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The one on the exhaust/outlet side of the charger?
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yeah thats the one, just thinkin tho, technically it should be ok.
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Any chance of listing all the bearing and seal part numbers Tom.
I have to rebuild my charger and it will be my 1st time so getting
the right bits is essential.
I have a Bearing factors local to me and possibly will get them trade.
I`ll take it that the Apex seals are the sealing strips that go in edge
of the scroll & if so where did you buy those?
Regards, Fred.
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yes mate no problem,
BEARINGS
6002 RSR C3 x1
6003 RSR C3 x1
6304E C3 x1
NU202E x1
10-6960 x1
the C3 fit means they will expand slightly under the tempreture to make sure there's no play in the race. all these bearings are manufactured by FAG, but i'm told if there not available SNR make equal quality ones.
SEALS
A 08211/18 x2
A 08307/01 x1
A 006207/05 x1
A 08227/04 x1
the apex seals are the strips that seat into the scroll, these come in strips of 40 inches,
i ordered 5 of these just to be safe,
APEX SEALS
A008216/10 x5.
i also ordered a new belt aswell which they had in stock, tho no part number was given with this.
hope this helps you out,
Cheers Tom
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fag bearings are available if you look.... the centre bearing usually used is a rna4905 - i use an iko and often the pulley side is just a 6304.c3 then E means a different cage.... but gladersiete just supply standard cage.
the belts we sell for £6 - optibelts
ps fred, your charger looked quite freshly serviced, and looked a full blend
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pete,
what grease do i use for the apex seals????
cheers Tom
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either kluber (horrid sticky shit they sell on gladersiete) or spray lube - we sell.. See merchandise!
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is there much differance?
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kluber is much thicker.. needs applying with a brush... you can only apply it when the charger is apart... the ptfe grease you can apply it either apart or down the inlet hole when running
pete
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Super stuff Tom,
Many thanks for the info fella. I reckon the specs will be of use to many
like myself with limited knowledge of the charger. I dare say many have spent hundreds
of pounds having the likes of Jabbasport rebuild chargers because of fear of doing it
themselves. Of course, some mechanical knowledge is essential! especially removing &
and refitting bearings/seals as i`de hate to think that someone may use a screwdriver
as a drift to knock out the old bearings. I used to do all the machine maintainance at
various places i`ve worked at so would more often than not machine a press tool
on a Lathe for the purpose.
Me thinks that this site needs an archive section for all reference data like this.
And to Pete, I remember the conversation well when we scrapped the Genisis conversion
i`de bought. (about the charger)
It was said by the guy i got it from that it had recently been done but there is no proof
as such of this.
I would much rather have it apart and check it over than just use it unsure.
Is it ok to take it apart and if ok then to put it back together and use it? or does this
contribute to damaging seals ect.
Many thanks chaps,
Fred.
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you can sometimes disturb seals, but can only really tell if bearings are worn when they have play... which is sometimes too late!!!
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yeah the bearings i removed were really sloppy, as i'vediscovered last night the hardest part is trying to get the new bearings in, even with heat.
i'm going to try and make another attempt today.
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oven 120 degrees fro about an hour...
bearings - freezer overnight...
pop... no drifting, straight in.
the key is to prepare the countershaft in the same way (shaft freezer - bearings oven) and then put the whole shaft in the freezer overnight before heating the casing.
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so i should assemble the shaft first then build the casing around it??
sounds awkward but i'll give it a go
oh and how would you go about tidying up the outer casing? would you paint it??
i shot blasted mine last night and it still looks dull and dirty.
if you paint it what paint do i use?
cheers Tom
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you assemble the counter shaft into one unit with bearings and weight etc. then pop in freezer. When you heat the casings up you pop the centre bearing and counter shaft in. they just drop in. Easier than bearing, woodruff key, counterweight, bearing and going in the countershaft hole.
I cleaned the external part of mine with petrol as a degreaser and then used hi -temp paint. doesn't need to be ultra hi temp though.
if you need to give me a bell, please do. Also if cutting apex seals, make sure they are slightly longer and then kindof force them into the hole... so there is absolutely no forwards/backwards movement, or this can wear the apex seal walls.
pete
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Bizzmeknicks,
Glad the oven/freezer bit is mentioned or i`de have been worried doing it
as well.
I did wonder about pressing in the sleeve roller bearing as it seems to
have a forged steel casing and so using a press may distaught it.
One more thing, is there a Gasket between the 2 casing halves
or is it just Blue Hylomar or something?
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the roller bearing will simply 'plop' in the centre. If it takes any real force, its not hot enough/cold enough. Be sure to support the bearing housng on the scroll (i.e. dont rest it on the apex seal walls as you might bend these!) Also the seals on the scroll are often slightly recessed by about 1mm
and its just hylomar.
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built finally. i'm going to fit to the motor tomorrow, see how it goes. the bearings did ned some slight force tho, even tho thy were frozen and heated
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Sounds like a nice tight one then Tom.
Pulled mine into the house and took some pics
but i don`t know how to post a pic yet till i suss it.
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just click on the additional options on the bottom left of your reply sheet and browse the image, was a right ball ache putting it back together as i forgot how it went.
i recomend you take lots of photo's whilst you dismantle it, it'll make it easier when you rebuild.
oh yeah mate its really tight, i need to lubricate it before i put it in,
sounds a bit strange that line above lol.
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if anyone needs a hand, pm or pref ring me!
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A few pics of mine before i strip it (http://)
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looks quite clean already, mine was full of black oil and grease.
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Only coz i gave it a wipe with cloth Tom.
You can see the black goo in the outlet Tube
an inch in or so.
Also, i flushed the charger with industrial Thinners
by pouring some in the intake side and turning the
Pulley a little.
Shook it about a bit then turned pulley again so it
would eject dirty thinners out the outlet port.
I had it in the passenger footwell of my Genisis
for a while and i noticed quite a bit of crap had
found its way into the intake ports even tho i`d
stuck some rag in it.
I had intended to have it apart anyway to check it
over even tho Pete thought it was mostly ok.
Have you tried yours out in the car Tom?
Just wandering if you`ve been out for a spin
since rebuild.
Regards, Fred.
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hmm industrial thinners....hmmm.... stuff like that can rot seals you know!
it should be full of oil - as the oil mist feeds it, unless you have a catch tank.
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not been out yet Fred, can't get the bugger to start, i snapped a bolt off in the casting when i was putting it back in, its the bolt that holds the earth wire to the unit so i'm gonna have to find an alternative route for that, i think thats why it isn't starting.
once i do get it started ill probably just leave it in the garage ticking over for a few hours, don't really want to take it out in this weather, just in case any anything happens, my first planned outing is the elsecar meet in april, tho i'll probably have it out before then,
so...... first task is get her started.
cheers Tom
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Crap when that happens Tom.
These days if i have a stiff bolt then i want to know why and if i have the appropriate
Threading Tap then i clean out the Tapped holes.
All sorts of reasons why they end up tight like having been over tightened wich starts to knacker the threads, or old threadlock and general corrosion.
It`s worth having a set of appropriate Threading Taps around for things like that especially
where Heat is concerned and parts that are blasted with constant road/salt rain shite.
And yes Pete, I was aware of this but i`m gonna rebuild the charger regardless of how it felt
for piece of mind. I also used the Airline to blow out any remaining thinners so as to prevent
heavy vapour from doing just that and also to help blow out any remaining debris.
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talking of vapours i can't wait till mine does fire up, i cleaned my air filter with TFR so that should give it a kick start, lol.
damn it my taps are in my locker at work, better wait till after new year now.
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Pete, what apex seals do you prefer to use ?
cheers
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tbh - i think most of the german places use the same supplier for apex seals - the ones i've had from Bartek tuning and G-ladersiete are the beige colour ones.. and i couldn't tell the difference. These are later vw spec - earlier ones being brown. The beige ones are softer, dont last as long but dont wear the scroll as much either! browns tend to be harder and less pliable
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Hi there, can anyone help? i'm new to this forum and am wondering if anyone can advise me on where to get the apex seals from as i'm struggling to get hold of these. Much Appreciated. Tony
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I got mine from http://www.g-laderseite.de/
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Hi, Altho this rebuild i found on you tube of a G60 supercharger the concept is the same for a G40 ...i hope this helps.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQg9TRdUhys
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Nice vid that. I learned everything I know from the G-lader.info site, good job I printed the whole site out before it shut down. ;)
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Tom, Did you get the apex seals from the bearing factors as well.
Just askin coz you never said.
Fred.
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Tom said he didn't replace them IIRC
I think I've got a supplier who originally supplied vw in the 90s with apex seals.
Also think i've got a source for viton oil seals.
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Do the club sell a rebuild charger kit then for DIY people. just wondered.
In no need myself at the minute just put mine back on.
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we are considering whether to... but to be honest we probably don't have the funds to have them in stock. Jabba rebuild kits are £220+postage on their website - so if we have a couple in and they are a similar price - that's £440 in someone's house on a shelf.... We are only a weeny club!
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Tom, Did you get the apex seals from the bearing factors as well.
Just askin coz you never said.
Fred.
i did get some from the factors but as Pete said i didn't use them, they didn't seem to be right, they looked slightly thinner than the ones i took out. i don't know weather the oil had swelled the ones i took off up? i ended up re-using the ones i took off as they looked fine and had no defects.
cheers Tom