Club G40 Forum
Technical => Chassis & Braking => Topic started by: Jezza-7 on January 30, 2011, 04:51:24 pm
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Took this off today to replace the mount with a poly one and found this on the mount:
(http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq157/jezza-3/IMG_0070.jpg)
1st crack
(http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq157/jezza-3/IMG_0072.jpg)
2nd crack
(http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq157/jezza-3/IMG_0071.jpg)
3rd crack possibly a 4th
(http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq157/jezza-3/IMG_0069.jpg)
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by that welding, it looks like a PPS one, not a PPP one
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Sorry forgot to mention it is a PPS one NOT PPP!
Cheers Pete
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Buy cheap, buy twice eh?
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haha exactly what i said to my mate. Im gonna get a ppp subframe if yoof has any if not, im gonna go back to the original setup.
Can you fit the original gearbox mount with a subframe?
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haha exactly what i said to my mate. Im gonna get a ppp subframe if yoof has any if not, im gonna go back to the original setup.
Can you fit the original gearbox mount with a subframe?
Νο, it has no space... i thing that the gearbox mount will hit the frame...
Why don't you contact with the maker and replace or re-weld the broken part?
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Why don't you contact with the maker and replace or re-weld the broken part?
Would you trust your life to that quality of welding? Even if you repaired the gearbox mount to a decent level, the rest of the subframe is still suspect.
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This goes to show the inportance of CE & BS certified items, whether it be engine or chassis related. You would have trouble in a accident investigation getting a payout if dodgy parts are found to be the root cause. Thats why I paid extra for KW's, TUV approval cetificate with them...
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Why don't you contact with the maker and replace or re-weld the broken part?
Would you trust your life to that quality of welding? Even if you repaired the gearbox mount to a decent level, the rest of the subframe is still suspect.
Definately not mate...
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No i wouldn't wanna trust that at all!
The frame is staying on for 2 weeks then once its mot is done its coming off the road for engine stuff and thats when the frame will be coming off too!
The frame appears to be ok though. Will get a better look at it on a ramp but until then i cant do much.
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What have you been using the frame and car for Jezza? Light on-road use or full on track hammering? And are your other engine mounts OK - i.e. not too worn and putting extra strain on the rear mount?
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Just road. It has covered around 12k i think.
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Hhmmm, a case of S**T welding.com, if you think the frame is suspect get the paint off the welds then get them MPI/DPI inspected, and repaired if required.
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Just road. It has covered around 12k i think.
Blimey
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id strip the paint off off the important areas on the subframe (welds near control arms) and make sure there are no cracks.
we shouldn't jump to conclusions on the rest of them frame - this could be a one off bad weld. and i cant quite see from the photos - but is there anyway the installation could have had an impact on the cracks?
im not implying you have put it on wrong - more that when putting it on the clamping onto the gearbox the bolts have bent the bracket inwards/outwards??? or that the mount wasnt straight? putting it under load in the wrong plane.
Not every engine will sit in the bay the same way as you have 2 mounts either side of the engine which you can move 3-4mm forwards/backwards. when i first put my engine in and did it up it was sloping and twisted until i straightened it out on the mounts.
think this thread may have had a few people looking under there cars at this part!!!
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And are your other engine mounts OK - i.e. not too worn and putting extra strain on the rear mount?
Oh forgot to say that im just about to replace them all.
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This goes to show the inportance of CE & BS certified items, whether it be engine or chassis related. You would have trouble in a accident investigation getting a payout if dodgy parts are found to be the root cause. Thats why I paid extra for KW's, TUV approval cetificate with them...
No- CE Certification can be self certified- it shows neither quality or consistency in the manafacture of components, just mearly that they meet a set of rules.
What you actually need to do is engineer the part properly, and undertake a thorough test procedure.
From memory KW coilovers are only TuV approved down to -60mm, so your current setup, probably isn't ;)
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Mine is about 60mm down, still got the helper springs in and its no lower than the 60 Gmax kit I had on before.
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Oh forgot to say that im just about to replace them all.
Might have had an effect...? As youngprodigys quite fairly points out, we may be unfairly jumping to the wrong conclusions, hence my questions about the mounts and usage. From memory though, wasn't there another PPS frame with broken welds like this?
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Yeah i believe it was antony's (dub-diaster) frame. iirc he sent it back to them and got a new one?
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Thats true but before i took it off, it appeared to be straight and looked ok. But the welds do look crap on the g/b mount. The subframe welds are better than the gearbox ones but who knows how long they last. To be honest i don't wanna find out.
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yer the weld does look bad, nothing a welder wouldnt fix!
and if you wana sell your old subframe id be more then willing to buy it! im sure the rest of the welding on the frame should be much thicker then what was on that mount
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IIRC this is the second PPS frame with cracks though isnt it?
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i think both products are quality, although ive not run a PPS frame for more than 4 months, the PPP frame fitted on the G40 was fitted for a good few years and bar some scuffs on the bottom from bottoming out, all welds looked OK but tbh i didnt investigate too much. i did have a knocking on braking but this was resolved by a new rear gearbox mount.
im sure if you spoke to Norm, he would be happy to supply a new gearbox mount, and im sure on the other side of the fence, Andy and Yoof would aswell.
yes its scary but as its a simple fix and with high-performance cars you should check the quality of your suspension components on a regular basis.
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well I certainly know I'd not want to be driving about with parts that are proving themselves to be prone to falling apart. Fixing it afterwards isn't much good if a part fails at 70mph on a motorway - I doubt you'd be in much of a fit state to be doing anything with a fixed part.
I know this might seem biased because Andy & yoof are good friends of mine but I'm yet to see any such reports about their subframes.
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Lol this is exactly what happened to my frame, I was never happy with the quality of the old or new frame I was sent and there's a thread with photos to prove it !! I learnt my lesson with this as said earlier in this thread "buy cheap buy twice" I'm not knocking the bloke that makes them but one cracking fair enuff honest mistake but two cracking in the exact same places and in the same way is kind of suspect, I know what I would be doing in your situation jezz.
Dunno if you saw the last thread about them but have a gander search for pps frame see what you think of the pictures of the old cracked mount and the welds in the frame and the new frame might help you decide what to do.
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I've got a PPS frame and in truth I was quite happy with the weld quality in as far as it was purely a visual. The Mr. Blobby efforts other folk have had is now giving me cause for concern. I know Norm at PPS has been quick to replace a suspect frame, pity he hadn't been a bit more careful with what he put out in the first place. I reckon I'll be pulling mine for crack testing. That in itself will fuck the real price up beyond the PPP frame.
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Jezz just send him an email, sure he will replace it and it'l be fine.
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IIRC this is the second PPS frame with cracks though isnt it?
The frames ok, just the g/box mount.
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Lol this is exactly what happened to my frame, I was never happy with the quality of the old or new frame I was sent and there's a thread with photos to prove it !! I learnt my lesson with this as said earlier in this thread "buy cheap buy twice" I'm not knocking the bloke that makes them but one cracking fair enuff honest mistake but two cracking in the exact same places and in the same way is kind of suspect, I know what I would be doing in your situation jezz.
Dunno if you saw the last thread about them but have a gander search for pps frame see what you think of the pictures of the old cracked mount and the welds in the frame and the new frame might help you decide what to do.
Already spoke to yoof and he is sorting it out this week for me, well to get one on order as he hasn't got any in stock currently.
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Jezz just send him an email, sure he will replace it and it'l be fine.
Will get in contact with him tonight.
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Stuarts a legend tbh, he'll do anything for you. Got my girlfriend a subframe which was his old design, we paid for postage his way and he completely upgraded everything to the new spec and sprayed it for free. He also paid for the postage back too.
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Just checked the mileage from when it was fitted and it was fitted at 101685 and i have just done 108025.
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the PPP frame fitted on the G40 was fitted for a good few years and bar some scuffs on the bottom from bottoming out, all welds looked OK but tbh i didnt investigate too much.
I jet-washed it yesterday and gave it a close visual inspection. Apart from some scuffs to the paint which resulted in some surface rust, it's in very good shape! Before seeing the frame I had thought I might need to change the rose joints - after all it's seen a few year's service so far. But once cleaned it's apparent they're almost perfect! A decent rub down, coat of paint, re-grease and new rose joint boots (old ones still live on though on Saf's new subframe) and it'll be ready for another few years service ;D
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ive got my new boots now mate, will send the old ones over when i can, however one has a hairline split, so it may be worth spending the 6-7 quid and getting a new pair from rally design. will send em over anyway
rose-joints should last an eternity if not exposed to the elements
good to hear its in top nick mate, took a few scrapes in my ownership getting down adams farm track, but like you say, still looks cracking. looking forward to ya reporting back when its fitted! bet youll be grinning like a cheshire cat!
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Saying that ive had really good service from pps, although next time i buy ill be going ppp. The ground clearance just wasnt enough on the one i had on mine from pps even though the one i got my girlfriend was more shallow. Having the added adjustable camber is a winner too
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ive got my new boots now mate, will send the old ones over when i can, however one has a hairline split, so it may be worth spending the 6-7 quid and getting a new pair from rally design. will send em over anyway
Don't worry mate - no need to send them on. I've already ordered replacements. Though they might as well be replaced, especially as they're so cheap. Can't wait to fit it now :)
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Emailed stuart this evening and got a reply:
Hi James,
No worries, I will send you another asap,and I will make sure all the welds
are spot on,
All I can do is apologise mate, can you send me your address again.
Thanks, Stuart.
Nice to get a reply fast and know that as etches said he'll do anything as i think he would.
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hmm cracking gearbox mounts does not sound good! i know what its like for a greabox rear mount to fail and its not nice.
my mates G when i was driving the rear mount failed witch made the engine jolt forword as i was driving hard at the time witch pulled the exhaust apart and disconnected the throttle cable then had to drive 20miles home with a very loud exhaust and with the throttle cable disconnecting if i was not very gentle on the throttle.